After suffering at least 12 years with J-Pouch related issues/discomforts, it seems that I've encountered a solution.

Before I go into this very interesting topic, I must inform you that I just spent 18 hours without eating or ingesting fluids and endured 8 hours in the radiologist's office having x-rays of my small intestine and J-Pouch (routine procedure). So, I'm a bit drained; meaning that the following description of what I've done over the past 9 months will be semi-brief. Last week I had my first upper-endoscopy in 8.5 years and the gastroenterologist ordered the x-rays since he found polyps in my duodenum.

That said...

Before March 2014, I suffered greatly from Pouchitis and bathroom-related sleep disturbances (name it, I suffered it; to spare you the details). I awakened in the night on the average of 3 times; leading to Adrenal Fatigue that mimics hypothyroidism due to cortisol dumping. I weighed at least 33 pounds more and couldn't drop the weight with exercise and with controlling calorie intake/fat consumption. I couldn't eat fruit, vegetables (raw and cooked), seeds or nuts without having issues with diarrhea/blockage (at the same time). I blamed it all on the fibre... and bought a Vitamix Blender believing that would solve the problem. Truthfully, it didn't. What I believe was the problem was chronic inflamation. Today I can eat anything natural I want without suffering the consequences, since the fibre wasn't the culprit.

In March I removed most refined carbs (simple carbs) and removed all wheat products (I don't believe that dramatic wheat-related health issues are limited to those with Celiac Disease nor are they limited to gluten in wheat). I do consume added sugar (maximally 24 grams/6 teaspoons per day) in my coffee or occasional lime/Flaxseed water... I eat occasional corn tortillas and occasional sweet potatoes or plantains (I discovered a wonderful flourless pancake recipe that utilizes blended plantains instead of flour). I do not limit my fruit intake, especially if it is high in fibre, especially if it is high in vitamin C. Aside from the occasional corn tortilla, I'm not eating corn on the cob or corn kernels. I'm also not eating potatoes. One more thing; I've greatly decreased my usage/consumption of commercial vegetable oils, including Canola, since they are very high in pro-inflamatory Omega 6 fatty acids; we obtain enough Omega 6 in our diet of animal fat and vegetables. The vegetable oils throw us way over the top and create an extreme Omega 6/Omega 3 imbalance. I don't drink sodas or fruit juices, since fruit juices often have more added sugar than do sodas. (Just a note: commercial cerials and flavored yogurts generally have more sugar than do sodas or cakes; just in case you thought you were giving your children healthier food in the name of Dannon or Kelloggs...) I'm not drinking alcoholic beverages, since alcohol affects the liver just as does fructose (Another note: Parents, if you thought only alcoholics suffered from fatty liver disease that converts to cirosis, today you will be seeing an epidemic in fructose related non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in children, adolescents and young adults. Have you noticed pot-bellied children?... 6-year-old boys and girls with beer-bellies for instance...)

Without exercise, both my wife and I lost around 22 pounds in 3 months. Then we found that we could exercise more easily and withstand longer periods of exercise in the past. We also found that we endured much longer periods without eating. Diets high in refined carbs cause hunger on the average of every 2 hours. Diets high in protein cause hunger on the average of every 5 hours and diets high in fat cause hunger on the average of every 7 hours.

When we all but removed the refined carbs from our diet we increased greatly our consumption of fat and complex carbs. We always had a diet high in protein. But, without "cutting" the protein with simple carbs (rice, bread, pasta, potatoes, tortillas) we realized that we must cut it with fresh fruits and vegetables, which was a severe worry for me, considering the havoc fibre reeped upon my digestive tract. After 9 months of this incredible experiment, I've realized that what caused the issues was NOT the fibre or the fresh fruit and fresh and cooked vegetables... It was the refined carbs, the wheat products and the commercial (Industrial) vegetable oils.

In 9 months I've lowered greatly my triglycerides, my blood-glucose and my total cholesterol, while raising my HDL cholesterol... while eating much animal protein and animal fat (especially eggs and cheese). Due to work intensity between late September and early November I spent 7 weeks without any exercise and with an increased consumption of animal protein and fat, cheese and eggs and noticed a decrease in cholesterol, glucose and Uric Acid (Uric Acid is supposedly related to high consumption of animal protein and considered a risk in both gout, rheumatoid arthritis and kidney disease). And I didn't gain weight with the 7 week hiatus from exercise.

I cannot over-stress a very important point: calorie counting and lowfat dieting has absolutely nothing to do with health and weightloss. More accurately: I don't worry about my calorie count or fat consumption (animal fats from chicken, beef, cheese, yogurt, cream, butter...) and I have blood tests every 2 months and my wife's and my weight measures and physical appearance as the testiment. Daily exercise increases muscle mass and may prevent weight loss, although the body becomes trimmer and more attractive. However, if you are concerned about being able to tell people that you continue losing weight and you don't... you must maintain faith in how you look and feel and forget about the numbers you believe they seek for truly believing you.

All this said, most importantly is the fact that I sleep through the night and don't suffer blockage/diarrhea or pouchitis.
Original Post
This sounds quite a bit like the SCD. It inspires me to return to it! I was very successful at keeping UC at bay for many years. Don't know if other things contributed to the UC getting out of control but I know I got lazy for the three years before j pouch and 'cheated' regularly.
Sounds like the way that I lived from around 1990-2009.
From the time that they created my k pouch in '79 to 2009 I suffered from pouchitis (no one told me what it was or where it came from, just that I had it and that I had to take antibiotics...lots of them).
My pouch was unruley and difficult to empty due to the stuff in it being too I drank gallons of prune juice and coffee to counteract the thick gunk.
It was pretty much a cycle. Bread, pasties and cakes, milk products and prune juice. Very few fruits or veggies unless I wanted to deal with clogs and I didn't live in a country or have a lifestyle that could afford clogs and bathroom time. (I had moved to Paris in '83 and they were reknowned for lousy bathrooms).
Sometime after a pouch revision surgery (it fell off of the wall and was putting tremendous pressure on my girly organs and bladder along with a case of salpangitis and assorted cysts)I spent time in Toronto healing and read a book called Fit for life.
It really did change mine.
I learned about foods, food groups and dissociating them (only carbs or proteins in a meal and fruit on its own, limiting diary etc).
I gave up most diary, ate lots of fish and chicken, eggs and unpasturized cheeses etc and lots of fresh fruits and veggies.
My energy level soared, I could digest most fruits and veggies (still avoid leeks, pineapple, mushrooms and corn but can eat a lot more variety than previously) and didn't suffer from the 4pm exhaustion of the previous years any longer.
It is 25yrs later and when I fall off of the wagon and eat refined carbs, both starches and sugars, I feel it. I drag my butt, am chronically exhausted and need constant naps, live in a fog and suffer from chronic inflamation. I put on weight too.
I just had a few good months and dropped about 10lbs. Too bad I fell off again (birthday cake and co.). I have found that if I start the bread/cheese/sugary stuff then it takes me a week to detox from it all and find my balance again.
I have a very hectic work routine with lots of public transportation and walking, 12hr days and a lifestyle that doesn't allow for more than 5 minutes in the washroom. I eat an apple or banana, some cheese, dried fruits & nuts all day long and have a homemade veggie soup & tea when I get home.
I am no angel but find that this works best for me. Once I start it is easy to stick to it.
Who would have thought that carbs were my enemy?
Diet is not a cure-all but it surely helps a lot.
Thanks for reminding us of the virtues of a pouch-healthy diet.
something similar happened to me Before J-pouch and suffering with UC I tried the gluten free diet unfortunately it didn't help I was to far gone. I had j-pouch surgery 4 years ago and was still suffering with food. I decided to go back to gluten free after reading some ones post a few months ago stating that it helped them. So far I am eating foods that I could not eat before . I am making smoothies with different types of fruits and vegetables that I would have never touched before I try one thing at a time to see how it agrees with me. I still can't seem to gain weight. Also I only eat or drink dairy free products. My issues are not as bad. I do have a problem with constipation and that is because of the strictures. I did read that some of you drink grape juice and that seems to help I haven't tried that yet. I have been taking miralax. My gastro suggested Milk of magnesia I will let you know how it works. I do take vsl#3 and trying to cut back on anti biotic. I don't know if I am doing the right thing but then again I never know what is going to work. I have been trying gluten free for about 1 month but sometimes I go off a little but mostly eat gluten free. I will let you know how it works. That is wonderful that you have found a way to make your life less stressful keep up the good work Health to all Grce
Hi JHendrix, Truthfully, I didn't know about SCD: the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. But, at this moment I opened up SCD lifestyle. Being that my "illness" isn't Crohns or IBD or UC, I lived greatly out of the loop of medical experiences/frustrations and hopeful solutions that I imagine most of the non-FAP/Gardners Syndrome J-Pouch community (which is at least 99.9% of the community) know. I've read and learned a ton over the past years, especially over the past 10 months. I've considered AGEs and FODMAPs and read about Celiac, although I don't believe that I would be diagnosed with Celiac and wouldn't return to gluten just for being evaluated. Thinking about FODMAPS and the argument that there is no Gluten Intolerance but a reaction to FODMAPS and that IBD is an issue purely about FODMAPS, I flit my hand as if shooing away a fly. Why? because most of my issues disappeared without removing most FODMAPS. And after reading about high sulfur content vegetables (Onions/Garlic) for balancing out the AGEs in heat chained proteins and about the need for sulfur with vegetable protein for building cell membranes etc (I'm not vegetarian, but understand that not everyone eats animal protein all the time or enough for subsistence; actually most humans don't eat animal protein regularly, but they need protein, fat and cholesterol for maintaining their bodily structures amongst many other things... and the sulfur in the onions and garlic can't hurt...) So, maybe it is something else... And has anyone studied what forms more AGEs in the human body; excess sugar or heat altered protein? What causes breast cancer; genetic propensity or too much sugar in the diet considering that diabetic women have a 300% greater risk of developing Breast Cancer than non diabetic women. But, the "medicine" or public "health" continues telling women to decrease fat intake for decreasing risk of breast cancer... Has anyone removed excess glucose from a human test body in order to see if it wasn't refined carbs afterall? The same thing goes for Diabetes related heart disease, since the numbers reflect that of Breast Cancer and still "they" are talking about saturated fat and cholesterol...

I'm sorry if it seems if I'm running on a tangent or raving... But, I believe I have a point: a society that has suddenly become extremely dependent upon refined carbs (especially economically from both sides: very lucrative and very inexpensive), like an alcoholic or a co-dependent family member, will not allow itself to truly consider refined carbs as an issue, even if it is killing the loved-ones, draining the family bank account and destroying the community... not even a supposedly un-biased scientific community... I remember talking with a J-Poucher who complained about severe issues of Pouchitis, but wasn't willing to remove alcohol from their periods of rest and "relaxation"...
Hi Sharon, nice to hear from you again. I was surprised that I could eat pineapple and papayas, dairy and who knows how many other things that made life virtually impossible and the running to the bathroom etc... Yesterday my wife prepared a beef "goulash"-like stew with leeks... I haven't had problems with them... Almost nothing I put in my mouth irritates me... not even dried chiles or fermented products. I swore that I couldn't ingest vinegars... But after reading so frequently on the Chris Kresser Paleo site about fermented vegetables and beans, for improved gut health (he's actually writing to the IBDs and those with SIBO), I decided to prepare my very own Kimchi and was surprised that I experience neither good nor bad, as if it was just an innocuous food to enjoy...

As for falling off the wagon... fortunately I'm not planning a return to New York City where you find baked goods from every country in the world that bakes with wheat flour at hand's reach... Here in Mexico the best wheat flour products are flour tortillas, a very European sourdough or non sourdough bread called Birote only found here in Guadalajara, a Cornish English inspired pastry called Pastes (pronounced Pasties), some wonderful Mexican Cookies and pastries uniquely Mexican and wonderful with a few cups of dark roasted black coffee and nothing else... I used to recreate gourmet pizzas and Mediterranean pastas or Hot Italian sandwiches etc in my kitchen. But, feeling nothing stressful within is worth the restraint. Walking on the streets of NYC would be trial by fire and would rather not go there...

On a slightly different note, my wife and I went to the Kitchen Aid store here inquiring about their meat grinding accessory, since we decided to refrain from buying grain fed/finished beef and began venturing into the vast farmland outside of Guadalajara for pasture grazed beef, which is high in Vitamin A and Omega 3, yet is much tougher than grain fed beef... We have a high-quality Kitchen Aid mixer that we don't use now that we don't bake, but can use it for its accessories. In the store I noticed a dry grinder accessory and learned that a diabetic woman here in Guadalajara is grinding dry garbanzo beans for flour she uses instead of wheat... The attachment is a bit expensive, but I believe it could be an interesting experiment... like creating bean flour too... Since it is a dry grinder, you can't grind nuts or seeds in it due to their oils...

Hi Grace B,

Have you tried ground flax seeds? If not, I would recommend buying them whole and grinding them in a Magic Bullet, Nutri Bullet or Vitamix Blender and Mixing one or two tablespoons in a large glass of water... I enjoy it alone or with the juice of one lime and occasionally with 1 or 2 teaspoons of sugar (only if I put lime juice. But, usually I include the lime without the sugar). As for grape juice... I would avoid it due to the added sugar. Another thing that helps me when I experience blockages or irritations is eating a whole apple... Aside from ground flaxseeds that I would recommend for the essential oils (Omega 3); up to 5+ tablespoons per day (don't buy it ground since it will be spoiled), apples were a miracle discovery that temporarilly removed all pouchitis issues, especially eating an apple right before going to sleep. If I'm correct it's about the pectin... You eat the apple and during the night it pushes everything through without irritation. You awaken in the morning, go to the bathroom and there are the complete apple bits and you totally relieved, especially since you didn't spend the night running to the bathroom without any relief...

Oh, and before I forget, visit Fire Island for me this coming summer... Although I live in Mexico, near Puerto Vallarta, I haven't experienced more beautiful beaches than in Fire Island... a true paradise. I camped a week at Watch Hill just after that horrible Hurricane in 1991... I'm sure you remember it... The following weekend we (my girlfriend and I ate long-necked clams out in Montauk or Sag Harbour and I became horribly ill... what a night! A few years later I would eat long-necked clams again in Camden Maine and repeated the horrible experience. Needless to say, I stay away from clams...

A lot of traditional North African dishes are made out of various ground bean flours...Garbanzo bean, Fava beans and many others...they even do ground lentils (full of iron!).
They make a sort of pan bread using the flour, eggs and salt along with baking soda.
As for the vinager based or pickeled veggies and foods...I did lots of them.
There is an interesting recipe of pickled lemons (use small, young ones). You insize them on 2 sides, rub salt into them and then fill a jar with them, add salt & boiling water. Seal bottles and flip them.
You are supposed to flip them once a week and in 6 weeks the lemons are done...pickled. You then use them when you bake meats and fowl. They use olives with the lemons. makes for succulent dishes.
I make all of my own salad dressing out of either lemon or vinager and cold pressed olive oil. Much healthier & cheaper than the bottled kind and no artificial preservatives either (those are the real killer for me).
Hope that you stay well and happy
Nice to hear that you are doing so well
Hi Sharon, I have a bunch of North African and Middle Eastern cookbooks. I'll look into them to see if they offer recipes for bean flours etc. I do have a recipe for the pickled lemons. If I'm correct, they are very important in Moroccan cuisine. I noticed them in Arab markets in NYC. But, imagine they were very expensive. Although I've cooked a lot of international cuisine over the past 25 years and some very complex/time consumptive recipes, such as Moroccan Chicken Pie (Bisteeya), Baklava, Thai and Indian Curries, Iranian Koreshes or Mexican Moles, with other things such as pickled Lemons etc, I've found myself very lazy... The Kimchi is wonderful. Although I believe Mexico cultivates a lot of real Lemons, it is very difficult to come upon them here. In fact, the Spanish or Mexican name for Lemon is "Lime" (Limon). What you would think they would call limes (lima), is actually a sweet lemon... Occasionally I find unripened lemons in the farmers markets and jump on them, since they are higher in nutrients than limes. You can tell when they are lemons, although green, because they are elongated and with a nipple... But, they don't become yellow, since they were picked too early. I won't have much time for experimenting in the kitchen until February. So, we'll have to wait for entering into pickling lemons and other interesting projects I may have been too lazy to do before, especially grinding beans into flour... If I'm correct, all Asian Indian pastries are prepared with bean flour...

Today I prepared blueberry plantain pancakes for some friends... Did I mention these yesterday? The are flourless. For some reason or another the blended plantains create almost the same appearance and texture as traditional flour pancakes. You put the plantains, coconut oil, eggs, baking soda, salt and vanilla in the blender and blend until smooth and that is the batter that you fry in the pan... So simple...

Thanks for reminding me of the Moroccan Lemons.

Thanks Ross I will try the apple. I am just nervous about eating it maybe I should put it in the bullet and blend with some coconut water. I do have a problem with constipation but I am going to try it tonight I will let you know how it works. I try not to eat anything after 8 because of bathroom issues, even though I have the problem of constipation I still get that urge during the night. After dinner I was taking a little miralax but my gastro told me to use milk of magnesia I am going to try that after dinner tonight. Thanks for all info I appreciate everyone's input, Every bit of info helps. It is nice to see all of the different foods that you are eating. Sounds good Good luck to you in your new endeavors and stay healthy Grace
Hi Sharon I was reading your post and didn't realize that lentils have loads of iron. Can you tell me what you make with grind lentils. I don't take iron pills because I suffer from constipation so this may be my alternative. I don't eat beef either it doesn't digest well with me. Scott also gave a suggestion and I do appreciate every bit of info I get. I went to health food store to buy floravital iron I did but is very expensive to be on long time regimen. I do buy it occasionally. I do take vitamins but I would rather get them from food. Thanks for any recipe you can give me. Be healthy Grace
Grace, I've had strictures, and a whole apple has blocked me in the past. I'd be quite careful with that. Remove the skin at least, if you try it. I'm very careful these days in regards to foods that don't break down easily. Pulverizing it in a blender might be a better option.

Milk of Mag is my go to for thinning things, because it's a nonstimulant. Sometimes I just take Mag Ox (OTC Magnesium vitamins) which work, too. Magnesium pulls fluid into the bowel, hence a more liquid stool.
I agree with Rachel on the apple...Try blending it first...still get all of the goodies like the pectin but much lower risk of blockages.
Lentils are used in so many dishes...did you know that there are 3 different colours with 3 different qualities?
The 'nicest' are the orange ones but rather expensive, then golden or green...all are great, healthy and full of iron (eat with tomatoes or potatoes for a well balanced diet)...ground lentil flour can be turned into a sort of pancake or flatbread (fast & easy in a frypan or on a griddle)..But I make the old fashioned lentil soup with beef bones (all the goodness without the dangers of blockages).
I sauté the bones with tons of garlic, add thyme, paprika and laurel leaves (whole and throw out at the end of the cooking...Can cause major blockages if swallowed!) and then lentils then cover with boiling water and simmer.
Add the potatoes in cubes and/or spoonful of tomato paste...Simmer slowly.
Very, very yummy...more water makes it a soup, less makes it a stew. Sometimes I use a can of tomatoes in it to make it richer.
Loads of bioavailible iron too. (Be ware of gas, it could be problem for some of us).
Constipation... that's why I hardly ever ate fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds... for years, never apples... I also hated the skin. However...

Removing the wheat products, most industrial vegetable oils (in industrial I mean industrially fabricated, such as Mazola, Canola... non-virgin olive oils... and the such. Udo Erasmus explains extremely clearly the issue in his book "Fats that Heal; Fats that kill"), and most other refined carbs along with potatoes and most corn products I removed the inflamation that causes the blockage.

When you remove the skin of an apple, you remove most of the nutrients. So, if you don't want to eat the apple straight, blending it makes a lot of sense... if you don't have problems with those textures...

We are "special" people with extremely unique experiences, and the J-Pouch specialists and the Colitis, IBS, Crohns and FAP/Gardners "experts" don't live with these experiences, and being hard working human beings pressed for time, they don't have the time, energy or money for truly understanding what happens with the patient who had their colon and rectum removed etc. It is up to each of us to try and think "out of the box" or backwards and forwards, turning what we were told to believe or what we were told is normal or healthy on its head and start looking at things from a different perspective. Sometimes easy responses or easy fixes (represented greatly by the Pharmaceutical Industry and Modern Occidental Medicine) create much less recovery or much slower understanding of the situation.

If most of the problem with modern 20th/21st century chronic illness is related to inflamation, then maybe we should consider best what causes inflamation and what the inflamation causes.

"Itis". Do you know what that signifies? Inflamation. Pouchitis, Colitis, Duodenitis, Gastritis, Esophagitis... The inflamation of the brain is... Meningitis; "an acute inflammation of the protective membranes covering the brain and spinal cord, known collectively as the meninges."

So, imagine the J-Pouch or the Small Intestine inflamed and then imagine ruffage or large inflexible particles, such as nuts or seeds or broccoli etc passing through narrowed inflamed passageways, especially if those passageways have billions of folds or tentacles (cilia) that jut out towards the center of the passageway (if you don't suffer from Celiac Disease)... Now, imagine those passageways uninflamed...

Think about it. Why would we have problems with blockage when healthy people with colons and rectums don't? Where is the blockage occurring? In the J-Pouch? or in the Small Intestine? They have Small Intestines too... And, the J-Pouch is an increased reservoir replacing the rectum... our colectomies removed transit time and distance or space for creating risks for blockage or constipation... We don't have that reservoir (colon) for slowing things down and removing excess water. We shouldn't be the constipated ones...

or maybe we should turn the issue on its head and ask what it is about our illnesses/syndromes that causes the blockage in the first place... It isn't the natural and healthy produce we place in our mouths... Absolutely illogical. Although I imagine most of us have spent years blaming suffering on Lettuce, Spinach, Cabbage, Mushrooms, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Carrots, Beets, Kale, Swiss Chard, sweet potatoes, potatoes, winter squash, nopales (cactus paddles; which is ironic, since they are the #1 vegetable in the world for decreasing inflamation), Nuts, Seeds, Pineapple, Bananas, Papaya, non-squeezed oranges/Grapefruits, guavas, (I just named most of what caused me horrible bathroom problems for the past 11 years... which includes horribly embarassing night-time "incontinence"; when you actually manage to enter REM sleep after spending how much time in the bathroom straining, wishing you could pull out with a hook what is there telling you you must run to the bathroom every 5-10 minutes and then seemingly laughing in your face..., and either the liquid passing around the blockage and staining the sheets and irritating your skin... or maybe something "relaxed" and you awaken "in the process..." your "significant other" sleeping unperturbed alongside your "mess", your momentary sleep destroyed at 4am...)

This is NOT a joke. I'm NOT an outsider preaching to you.

No one truly shares their horrible experience with others (in order for others to know that they are not the only ones living these VERY PERSONAL difficulties. Afterall that is what these groups are for; support, increased understanding...), not even on the J-Pouch communities... (only surgeries and setbacks; it's difficult to mention constipation--we hear the snickering towards the back of the 4th grade classroom if you know what I mean)...

We've lived our lives as outsiders with our experiences... although it is not our fault, we suffer horrible taboos... What men talk about J-Pouch-caused sexual dysfunctions? Incontinence? What is worse to share with the ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WHO COULD POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND US and what we are experiencing...? But we don't go there. We can talk to doctors about this. Women don't remove their blouses and brazieres in public. But, if the person who will do the mamograph suddenly appears to be a "strange" man, they can become topless... I run shirtless in the city park (for Vitamin D) and people look at me strange. The children yell to their parents, "LOOK there's a man running naked in the park!" although I'm running with shorts... And I feel bad. And I feel bad when those shorts slip down a little bit and show a bit of my hip or upper buttocks... But, in the radiology room I quickly learn to not worry about the fact that the hospital gown is slightly open in back showing off almost everything, especially since they made me lay down on my stomach... We can tell these things to the doctors, since we believe they understand and because we believe they've heard and seen it all. But they are humans who have NOT experienced what we experience. And, until one truly experiences what we experience profoundly and possibly on a constant basis and truly what worries and irritates us, "they don't know NOTHIN'"...

But, I have stumbled across something... And I am sleeping through the night NO MATTER WHAT TIME I ATE (and I eat a lot and I often eat an hour or maximally 2 hours before I go to sleep)... And, I've stopped defocating in the bed... And I can eat almost all fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, cooked or raw etc without suffering as I had... And I don't take anti-inflamatories or metamucil or milk of magnesia or or or...

I have been told, by my GI and CRS, that over time, the mucosa of the J pouch does turn more "colonic."

My GI has said that the pathologist will read biopsies on "old" pouches (not old patients, old pouches), as "colon." I can't point to it quickly, but I have read some studies about gene mutations in pouches. They change over time.

Stands to reason if that is the case, more water IS absorbed, and things can get thicker. Our outlet area (anal area) is not as flexible or large in diameter as a "regular" person's whose never had rectal/anal surgery (according to my surgeon). That's just the truth. The small intestine in a normal anatomy person's body does not fully break down things like skins, etc., either. Even certain things don't break down in the colon (ie. mushrooms, corn), however, their rectum/anus can stretch more to allow the undigested pieces the ability to pass. Ours sometime cannot. Also, our sphincters do take a little hit because of the perianal manipulation and suturing/stapling.

That's where my strictures and blockages have happened. Down low.

Others who have issues higher are often related to scar tissue, not necessarily inflammation. Our insides do not sit where nature intended them to sit. I've not had bowel issues due to scar tissue, but I've had reproductive issues because of the scar tissue entangling my ovaries and adhering them to places they're not meant to be. Can happen with bowel, only, too, and cause issues with blockages.

I, too, sleep through the night. Always have, after about the first year, unless I eat indiscriminantly/late, then I might get up once. I go 4-6x a day. I ate ANYTHING I wanted for 20 years, nothing gave me major issues. Only really in the last 2ish years have I had to edit more, because of my lower anastomosis issues and perianal fistula.

It is also interesting to me that pouchitis issues are nearly the exclusive problem of those with IBD vs familial polyposis patients. As if our genetics with inflammation cannot let go. I've been spared those issues for the most part, but the times I've gotten it were usually related to increased sugar intake (like around Christmas, when I ate too many cookies!). I do think refined foods are not the way to go, for sure. Also, years ago I went to olive oil, butter, and coconut oil as my fat sources. I never bought into the low fat hoopla. Perhaps that has helped me be more consistent over the years.

I'm glad you found something that works for you, though, and truly it might help others. I just wanted to point out some things about us that do make us different; our insides are not normal, and you really can't compare our small bowels with a normal person's anymore because of the manipulations we've gone through.
Thanks to all for all input. That's what I love about all of you. I am going to try the apple but pulverized I am a little to nervous about chewing. I don't normally eat anything raw unless I put it in blender. I would also like to try lentil pancakes. I do sometimes make a soup with lentils for my family but If I eat a bowl it just does not agree with me so maybe by putting it in a pancake it would be better. The plantain pancake sounds good to. So thank you all again and I will let you know how I do Stay healthy Grace
Rachel, I perfectly understand about everything you said. I also use olive oil and coconut oil. You are very fortunate that you were able to have much success with j-pouch I hope that you can get back to that. I know that sugar is the culprit to pouchitis. you are right Christmas is going to be hard. I am usually good about sugar intake but I still get pouchitis I can't figure it out but I do have to say that going off gluten has helped a little . Like I said I try to stay off gluten most of the time but every so often I do go off. I also have strictures around the bowl which makes it even more difficult. I hope that everything goes well with you and everyone else that suffers with this awful condition. Grace
Hi Grace,
I can't seem to find my flatbread recipe but I did find a lentil patty/meatball recipe if this helps.
I am a true lover of fresh herbs so this one is a good one to use all of the herbs that you love (my favorites herbs are cilantro, flat parsley, cives added to shallots (red mini onions)and garlic.).
I soak my lentils overnight (try the green or brown ones.) Some people then put them in a jar to allow them to sprout (lowers the gas level??? Not so sure but why not) (we tend to add a tablespoonful of baking soda to the water whenever soaking any is supposed to soften the skins, lower the gas-a-bility of the beans and make them more digestible).
Anyway, drain your lentils the next day. Take your washed herbs (a couple of tbls of each) and at least 1-2 cloves of garlic and shallot or onion. Put them all directly into the blender or food processor and blend the daylights out of it all until you get a smooth paste . You may need to add a few drops of oil (try olive or walnut oil, almond is great too).
Add salt, pepper and your favorite spices (cumin?).
Throw an egg in to make it all nice and stickly and then 'fry' it by the tbls full in a non-stick pan or in oil (depends on your diet/weight and feelings on frying).
It takes about 2 minutes per side or more...if you deep fry them you can then re-heat them in the oven and render out the fat.
If your batter is too thin try adding a tbls of almond flour to it. If not a cooked potato works wonders.
They are really yummy especially if you make a spicey tomato dip for them...Add a salad and you are can make the same patties with any of your favorite beans (did I just say favorite bean???).
Hi Rachel, I've also read that epithelial cells or the lining of different parts of the digestive tract can become similar to other parts... But, what I was reading was not positive, since lets say the stomach lining became similar to that of the colon before the person developed stomach cancer there... No, I'm not thinking that what you said is bad. Just that, yes, it may be possible that the digestive tract can evolve to take on functions of other parts... I've been curious if the J-Pouch absorbs the B vitamins and Vitamin C, since it's still alive and was part of the Ileum. Most of our B vitamins and Vitamin C are absorbed in the Ileum. I would also like to know just how much of the Ileum is used, since some people believe having the J-Pouch surgery causes distinct Vitamin deficiencies... I also wonder why the anus must be smaller and less flexible after the J-Pouch surgery. Is it intentionally minimized due to the concern that the J-Pouch creates increased diarrhea? I lived without a large intestine and with a rectum from 1983 until 2001 when I had my rectum removed. Living without a colon was a bathroom and diet issue, but only minimal. In fact, I don't remember such issues now living with the J-Pouch, which created such a difficult difference. Who knows? Maybe the rectum also absorbed excess fluids... Although I thought that was the responsibility of the large intestine.

I'm very familiar with scar tissue... A month after having my colectomy in 1983, I was rushed to Sloan Kettering since my scar tissue was strangling my small intestine. The doctors said that had they not opened me up again and removed the scar tissue, I would have died in 6 days. Truthfully, the second surgery was much more extensive than the first one. When you look at my radiology photos of my lower abdomine, the pelvic region, it looks as if there is the top half of a small basketball in my gut... What it is is the scar tissue that filled the area where once was my rectum and possibly large intestine... It's like dark cloud coverage or as if I had swallowed a basketball...

But I'm an FAP/Gardner's person with an 11 year history of pouchitis. And it seems that removing the wheat, vegetable oils and most of the refined carbs, I've removed the issue which, with all of my reading and investigations, points to issues of inflamation.

My contention with medicine, science, doctors, and people who complain about weight issues or issues with discomfort etc is that it seems that no one is truly looking at the problem. And I believe it is intentional, for many different reasons, which I won't go into, since it deals with social-psychology or psychology alone, politics and economics... My concern is that if one does not isolate things, they will never truly know if it was or was not due to... The studies connect heart disease with "sugar", cancer with "sugar"... but the "authorities" are saying FAT. Fat doesn't cause inflamation... Excess sugar in the blood does... Did I mention the connection between Diabetes and Heart Disease and Diabetes with Breast Cancer an Diabetes with Alzheimers Disease? I'm sure I did. What do all of these diseases have in common? Lack of control of insulin or too much glucose in the blood stream. For me, it seems simple, you change the diet towards glucose attached to fiber (removing the refined carbs) and watch and wait. And, maybe you'll also find that you have a better experience with your digestive system... Did you know that before the 20th century most non-European, non middle-class communities were free of chronic disease and obesity? Until the past 40 years chronic disease such as heart disease, Cancer, Diabetes, and Alzheimers were consider "diseases of affluence". The communities without access to refined carbohydrates, such as white rice, wheat flour and table sugar didn't experience those diseases, nor did they experience hypertension, cavities, gastric ulcers, gastritis or colitis... This is why I "harp" on the possibility of changing the diet so that we can eat fresh fruits and fresh and cooked vegetables for their nutrients without worrying about diarrhea, constipation/blockages and Pouchitis.

I live in Mexico coming on 12 years and don't have the economy or time for flying to the U.S. for seeking FAP/Gardners or J-Pouch specialists. Here in Mexico no one truly knows any of these issues. Since I last became horribly ill in 2006, I've been basically forced to investigate how diet causes my experiences or relieves those experiences. I was diagnosed with gastritis that made me look pregnant, two stomach ulcers, duodenitis, a hyper inflamed gall bladder full of gallstones (an issue with Gardners), hiatal hernia, hypertension, high triglycerides and high cholesterol, among issues of acid reflux, diarrhea, constant blockages and pouchitis. The doctors suggested I have my gallbladder removed. But I didn't have the money. Instead, I started researching...

Two years ago, I visited with a GastroEnterologist who had met my surgeon in Chicago and claimed he understood the J-Pouch and FAP/Gardners. I was complaining of discomforts on different sides of my abdomin and visited him for an Upper Endoscopy. But, he claimed that I didn't need one (with Gardners, the standard practice is every 2 years, since we can develop cancer of the Duodenum and Stomach Cancer, along with Pancreatic Cancer, Adrenal Cancer, Cancer of the Bile Duct and Gallbladder Cancer). Although I complained of discomforts and that I had gallstones and stomach ulcers, he had no interest in giving me an UpperEndoscopy or ordering an Ultrasound... Instead, he gave me a prescription for B12 injections because he claimed that with a J-Pouch I don't absorb the B vitamins... At the same time I was experiencing increasing muscle fatigue/pain while running. We were in the end of November/beginning of December. Inspired by what he mentioned about the Ileum and Vitamins B, I started investigating what is absorbed where in the digestive tract and how that may affect us... What vitamin deficiencies could cause muscle fatigue... And I stumbled across Vitamin D deficiency, Potassium deficiency etc... I immediately went to the nearest clinic and ordered various blood tests and an ultrasound. Would you believe that the ultrasound disclosed that I had removed my gallstones without surgery and by a dietary home remedy? My potassium came back normal. But, my Vitamin D was low... The vitamin D deficiency made it virtually impossible for me to run for another 1.3 years.

During the two years between the visit with that GastroEnterologist and the one who just did the Upper Endoscopy and order the x-rays of my digestive tract, I developed other concerns that appeared as Hypothyroidism (thyroid cancer is prevalent within Gardners; my younger sister developed it at the age of 26), the inability to lose weight with regular exercise although I controlled my fat, dairy and meat intake (I've never had a sweet tooth or been a soda drinker), what seems like peripheral neuropathy from my right shoulder to my right fingers (like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, I blamed on my baking endeavor for 4 years between 2003-2007), failing eyesight (although undiagnosable) and memory problems. I went back to the drawing board, returned to my readings on hypothyroidism and was surprised to see all of the above listed below the disease... and immediately visited with an Endocrinologist and had my thyroids tested... It was clear that he didn't believe my problem was hypothyroidism. He was focussing much on my weight (which can have so much to do with hypothyroidism) and my blood pressure (which can have so much to do with a vitamin D deficiency) and suggested a very low calorie diet. Fortunately, at the same time I came across the idea that calories have nothing to do with obesity, but the amount of refined carbs, blood-insulin levels and inflamation (that obesity causes inflamation also and causes decreased energy and not the other way around) and designed my very own diet. The thyroid tests came back normal and I had dropped around 10 pounds by the time we met again a month later... The endocrinologist asked me how I took to his diet and I responded, "I put it aside and designed my own" and explained what it intailed... And this is where my original piece begins...

But Rachel and others who have gotten this far... when I designed my new eating style (I don't like the word "diet" since diet is seen as temporary or a fad meant strictly for decreasing weight), I was NOT thinking about the J-Pouch or Gardners etc... I had come to believe that the diarrhea/blockage/Pouchitis/sleep disturbances issues were just a fact of my life with the J-Pouch; a trade-off or a sacrifice of comfort (and certain aspects of dignity) for preventing cancer and almost immediate mortality in exchange for living another 13 years; I've outlived my father 11 years now. I had no idea that I would remove most of the other issues concerning us the J-Pouchers regarding diet of health conducting foods much higher in dietary fiber... And that's why I decided to share with everyone... because I believe that it's not enough having the information and the related experience for myself. But, what I am certain of listening to so many J-Pouchers' concerns, "problems" and histories with the so-called expert medical community specializing in J-Pouches and Gastro-Intestinal diseases and reading the incredibly sparce and limited scientific literature on J-Pouches and Gardners Syndrome etc. is that what I've stumbled across most J-Pouchers are unaware of...

About comparing our small bowels with those of normal people's... I can't compare my body with the 3 other family members of my generation who inherited FAP/Gardners... Everyone's gene or allele expressed itself differently. I've never had cancer. My younger sister developed thyroid cancer although her FAP presented with much fewer polyps than mine and hers went away after the colectomy. Now she developed rectal cancer at the age of 43 (I had mine removed at the age of 32) and has a J-Pouch since March... She's also a refined carb addict/sweet tooth... and has a tolerance to alcohol I never had. One cousin has repeated surgeries for removing desmoid tumors. No one else has them. I have osteomas. No one else has them... My other cousin died of Brain Cancer at the age of 16...

I've read extensively about Celiac Disease, Gluten Intolerance, Wheat Alergies, issues with FODMAPs and Irritable Bowel Syndrome... "Discovered" the connection between wheat and Lymphoma... My landwomen's (two sisters) older brother suddenly developed lymphoma, destroying his jaw and one of his legs within two months. He's on chemotherapy for two years now. I asked one of the women if anyone of their family members had celiac-like issues. "NO"... Then I asked if her older brother ate much bread (I knew that the whole family drank much Coca Cola products). She responded, "AND HOW! If a normal person eats 1 baghette, he eats 3! If there isn't any in the house, he sends someone out to the store..." I asked her if his doctors checked his small intestine. She said yes and that there was nothing wrong with it... Two months later I mentioned this statement to her older sister who was much closer to their brother. I said, "I'm surprised that his doctors discovered his small intestine totally normal, considering what I've read..." and she exclaimed, "Are you kidding! The reason why they haven't removed him from chemo is because they discovered tumors in his small intestine... they keep coming back." And I asked, "and his doctors haven't mentioned anything about sugar and wheat products?" NOPE. They didn't know about it... although they are oncologists specializing in Lymphoma. Check any medical center/medical school website in the U.S. for Lymphoma and you will find a restriction against sugars and wheat products...

But what does this have to do with US and Them? And who is normal and who isn't... How do you know who is normal? And how do you know that most people aren't affected in different ways by the same thing?

But for one reason or another certain information that may aid many people (in different ways for different reasons) is not circulating seriously in the "American" medical and scientific communities... meaning that it doesn't filter down to us as patients...
My hat is off to you for taking your health issues into your own hands and researching the subject until you found the answers.
I have asked many of the same questions that you have, especially since I had my k pouch done in 1979, long before the internet exisited and 'free information' flowed.
My mom was an RN who studied nutrition her whole life (didn't help her in the end!) and believed in all sorts of diets and exercise programs...we juiced veggies when I was a teen (while I still had a colon...I had such horrible IBD that I couldn't eat solids), made 'milkshakes' with raw eggs (I know, some of you are against them but those risks were the least of my problems back then) and black strap molasses with orange juice, lecitin, B6 and kelp (yuck!).
She had a nutritionist do tests on our hair and skin to find out what we were 'low' in and compensated. We had whole shelves full of supplements and gobbled them by the fist-full.
But we were always sugar and carb addicts with half the family suffering from diabetes, hypoglycemia and hypothyroid and the other half suffering from Fap, colon cancer and pancreatic cancer.
My mom died healthy from an undiagnosed blood disease (!)...She could eat 2 loaves of bread with butter and cheese in 1 sitting...bulimia is a family tradition with us.
I have tried hard to control my binges, lower my carb intake (ice cream, candies, potato chips etc) and reduced radically my processes food intake (nothing 'manufactured' with more than 3 steps enters my house: eg. frozen or canned veggies are fine but not frozen lasagna. Pure juice is ok but not juice drinks)...I do pretty well at it most of the time now...I fear disease more than I love my sugars.
I do eat lots of good quality chocolate...
I have become very high energy since I cut out the carbs, do more than a lot of people half of my age with no history of disease. I take Vit D in the hopes of reducing my muscle & joint pain, B's and collagene...I do chewables like gummies (fine, they are full of sugars too but digest better in me) or liquids. It seems that most coated tablets go in and out the same way or get stuck for days in my pouch.
Any help that you can give me to help me optimise my health would be welcome Ross. Surgeons are there to cut. G.I.s are there to treat disease. Neither are there to teach you about nutrition. That requires a nutritionist. Or someone who is interested and cares. You care. Thanks
Ross, I read through your response.

I think you took my response as not taking your dietary changes seriously, but that wasn't my intent.

My response was more directed to people like Grace about the structural issues that can cause "blockages," etc., since she'd mentioned that issue. Not so much what food to eat, but HOW to eat it. And while you have FAP and pouchitis, the percentage of UC patients who get it vs. FAP patients heavily hits the UC group. It's not that FAP patients can't get it, but it's way more rare.

As for vitamin absorption, some J pouch patients don't have issues absorbing them, some do. It's random... but I theorize that some of us have a longer small bowel than others, and perhaps that's why some of us absorb better, or maybe even have less issues with things like incontinence... stands to reason. I read one patient say their doc said they had a "long" small bowel, and they did about like I did post op (very little issues). It's a possibility, though I don't have any conclusive evidence for that.

It IS true that anal exit area where pouch is connected to cuff IS less pliable than prior to surgery after ileoanal anastomosis, and it's also prone to strictures. And it is true that the J pouch mucosa will change to more colonic tissue, which leads me to believe that more water absorption is happening over time. Again, the GI mentioned the changes are seen in OLD pouches (20, 30 years along). I've had my pouch, come January 10 of next year, for 24 years. I fit that category. And I sometimes have that issue, and need to "loosen things up" like Grace does.

That's why I mentioned being *careful* with foods that don't break down, like for me, I used to be able to eat apples no problem, but NOW, with my lower issues from time to time, a raw apple can get blocked up in there at the exit, because it comes out looking LIKE apple if I don't chew it well. A few weeks ago I made Brussels sprouts, and roasted them. I had a devil of a time getting out all of that fiber, and even had to flush it out with an enema: had I steamed the sprouts, or eaten 3-4 of them roasted rather than a huge plate of them, I might have been ok. Sometimes for me, it's moderation or a few bites are ok, but eating with abandon is not.

I absolutely agree with the sugars issues we have in the world, and I agree that fats are not the issue. That's why I've never restricted fats, but I HAVE instinctively over the years, restricted carbs/sugars. In the early 90's, my hubby and I were balancing our eating doing 40/30/30 which focuses on balancing your GOOD carbs (low sugar/glycemic carbs, no refined carbs) to good percentages of fats and proteins. That's how we ate forever. So yes, I'm not arguing your dietary changes. In fact, I AGREE with them. I've done full FODMAP, too, and found some of my triggers by doing that. In fact, apples can be one of them for me!

Yes, no two people are the same. But nature intended us to have our colons, and we don't. I meant "NORMAL" like that: with the plumbing you're meant to have biologically, the STRUCTURAL normal. Also, now they are finding so many reasons we really NEED a colon, with all the new stuff they're finding out about good bacteria, etc.; our large bowels are truly more important than they thought, in regards to our immune systems. They're not the "throw away" organ from the days of my surgery, anymore. My daughter's pediatric GI docs have said that is one reason they really try VERY hard to get kids in remission rather than rush to surgery: to keep that large intestine. Obviously if they can't get to remission and they need it, they still revert to surgery, but they recommend surgery at way lower rates these days, and when they DO recommend surgery, they counsel patients a lot.

Back when I had my surgery, they called it a "cure." NOW my GI says he tells everyone he counsels about to have this surgery that it's not a cure, and that half of the people who have the surgery will have SOME sort of issue down the line, be it a bout of mild pouchitis, or something worse. The resources out there now to help people after our surgery are HUGE compared to what I had when I had my surgery in 1991... and I think it will continue to get better over time. I truly talked to one person who had the surgery before I went in for mine, and after surgery, met a group of about 4 and connected with them for a year. But I didn't have to seek help, as I had truthfully a very easy course post op and for the 20+ years after. Maybe eventually dietary counseling will be taken more seriously, too. There is a place for it.
Hi Rachel, actually, I really appreciated what you wrote. The problem is with either responding after each interesting comment you made or reading through before responding. I think I was doing something of the two... Actually, I responded the same evening I first received your response and deleted it by accident, entered into it again and found myself too tired to respond well and decided to return the following day. I believe that sometimes the importance of the response or responding equally well as you had originally written creates an intensity interpreted as a conflict. And now to read what you wrote...
Hi Sharon,

I really appreciate your comment. If you have any questions or concerns you wish for me to look into, feel free to message me. As for eating raw eggs... It was a miracle that I developed a liking for Okra, Nopal cactus paddles or ground flax seeds in water... I can't imagine ingesting raw eggs... However, those who are anti-eggs are following outdated information connecting eggs with "bad" cholesterol and cholesterol with heart disease... The latest info I have on eggs is that they are the "perfect" protein (meaning that they contain all of the essential amino acids) and they are also high in choline which is necessary for preventing cancer and for brain health... The only thing that I have come across that could be bad about eggs is the avidin in raw egg whites binds with Biotin preventing its absorption... potentially causing a deficiency in Biotin. Biotin is necessary for maintain adequate levels of insulin or stabilizing blood sugar. It's also necessary for skin elasticity and skin health...

"died healthy from a undiagnosed blood disease..." Wink

As for binging... no problem, as long as you keep it down... Vomiting destroys the teeth and can cause esophagitis, ulcers and cancer of the esophagus...

Thanks Ross,
Anything that you can find to help B Absortion, Collagene and/or anything to do with connective tissues and elastisity or healing would be great.
I cannot speak to U.S. eggs but here in France people no longer 'gob' them but we have been eating chocolat mousse for decades (raw eggs and chocolat) without any problem...we eat it up to 5 days after I make it without difficulty and so do most French people.
There are a lot of recipes with raw eggs and the incidence of illness is very, very low (it does not register) although the incidence of bad processed meat products and the such does.
Must be the way that the chickens are raised or what they eat...
I do not reccomend it (I stopped eating those milkshakes once I got my pouch over 35 yrs ago) but I know a lot of people who still do.
Actually the incidence of Salmonella in raw eggs is quite rare (USDA has it at about 1 in every 30,000 eggs), and it is nearly impossible for it to penetrate the shell, particularly if the shell is not washed prior to packaging (washing removes a naturally occurring bacterial resistant protective coating, but is unfortunately mandated for non-farmer's market sold eggs).

Contamination occurs in factory farm settings when eggs come into contact with feces, and is transmitted when the shell is handled. Helpful tip if you're concerned about it: alcohol concentrations over about 27% kill salmonella, so if you're really concerned and want raw eggs, drop them into a vodka bath (40% alcohol) before using. No problems.
Ooooooh! Chocolate Mousse... I was thinking about Chocolate Mousse these days because we had bought too much heavy cream for topping the wheatless plantain pancakes... Speaking of raw eggs. My neighbor brought me 2 kilos beef liver from grass fed beef and mentioned last night that he prepares a "shake" with raw liver and orange juice... for what, I don't really remember... The idea is a bit sickening, although I know that raw beef liver is recommended for a certain illness here or possibly iron deficiency. But it was something else I heard about years ago and forgot... Probably because I can't imagine anyone consuming raw beef liver in any form... Granted, when I prepare it, I avoid over cooking it, meaning that it is possibly reddish-pink in the middle... if it was a slight bit raw inside, it doesn't bother me...

As for absorption of vitamin Bs... I'll have to look into that, especially since that's the job of your Ileum, which we don't know how much was used for your Pouch and if the part used for the pouch still absorbs vitamins and minerals... If you don't have issues with Vitamin C, you shouldn't have issues with the Vitamins B, since most of your Vitamin C is absorbed in the Ileum.

As for Collagen... Jello (not the brand)... In Mexico it is called Grenadina... Pure unsweetened, unflavored Grenadine or collagen... with an extractor or juicer you can make your own naturally flavored jello... During the 32 years following my colectomy and scar tissue surgeries, I've avoided Jello like the plague (too much in the hospital diet...) But, Margarita began preparing it from natural collagen/grenadine with guavas and I became a fan again.

Another way of getting your collagen is by preparing bone broths... if you don't have a histamine problem (inability to metabolize histamine/undermethylization). The amino acid Glutathione in Gelatin increases histamines. The amino acid Methionine in muscle meats decreases histamines. When I read about gelatin/collagen I became incredibly enthusiastic and immediately ran out to the butcher for beef shins, beef ribs and who knows what else and prepared an incredible beef soup high in bone broth. The amount of gelatin/collagen from the shins/hooves thickened the soup like would wheat flour...(roux) It was delicious! and then I turned into a Jellyfish... I began inflating during the evening. My weight increased 3 kilos in just a few hours! For those from the U.S., 3 kilos is about 6.5 pounds... I jiggled if I moved... there was so much water suddenly below my skin... Then I read about undermethylization/problems with metabolizing hystamines... It's very interesting; if you have hystamine reaction requiring anti-hystamines, maybe you should just eat a chicken breast or a few steaks and the methiononine contrabalances the glutathione. It's very interesting; the contrasts: In the same body, skeleton vs muscle, skeletal muscle protects the bones of the skeleton from fracture and also moves the skeleton, while the skeleton gives structure to the muscles... the muscles produce the amino acid methiononine that balances the amino acid produced by the bones, glutathione...

You not only need collagen for strong healthy joints, you need it for good sleep etc... I also believe that the glutathione in collagen/gelatin regulates weight... Methiononine, on the other hand, prevents cancer at certain levels; although there are proponents who claim that it is the methionine in meat that promotes cancer... But, that's like the argument against omega 6 essencial fatty acids and inflamation. Too little and you die. Too much and you become chronically ill... Omega 6 is necessary for your immunological response. The inflamation is necessary for isolating and overcoming antigens etc. But too much inflamation and your body ceases functioning well and you develop disease...

Sharon, I would love to get back into the research on collagen... it's also very important for reducing stress (which is ironic since inflamation is directly connected with stress if collagen can causes inflamation--in those with problems with histamines).

When people think about histamines, they think of allergic reactions and hives etc. But, what most people don't know (like the methiononine and glutathione or Omega 3 vs Omega 6 etc) is that histamine is extremely necessary for the immune system. Certain foods give us histamines; and our body produces histamines on its own. If I'm correct histamines are also necessary for the circulatory system to work smoothly...

Truthfully, nutrition classes should have been a requirement like gym from elementary school through high school... We shouldn't be half learning about our bodies through pharmaceuticals... Who would have known about histamines without needing to take anti-hystamines. But no one learned what truly are histamines... Who learns about omega 3 before learning that they must take cod liver oil or eat salmon for lowering blood pressure? But do they truly learn that our body produces its own HDL cholesterol and how Omega 3 and Omega 6 balance each other out for optimal health etc?

You take Vitamin C for preventing colds. But do you know what Vitamin C truly does in your body? You think that Insulin is a bad guy regarding Diabetes II or you believe that it is a good guy... And you understand that people with "childhood diabetes" or Mellitus I must inject insulin for being able to metabolize glucose (for being able to create energy without consuming their own muscle cells). But do you know what Insulin truly does within the body?

The anti-protein and anti-fat "people" don't understand that all hormones and enzymes are formed by proteins and that all tissues and cell membranes are formed by the combination of protein, fat and cholesterol... Udo Erasmus wrote, "the easiest way to kill a dog is not by starvation; it is by giving the dog a diet 100% carbohydrate" when they truly need fat and protein for maintaining tissue structure.

If we truly understood how are bodies function, maybe we wouldn't be visiting the farmacies and doctors... and we would know how to eat...

You want to lower your blood pressure? Increase dramatically your vitamin c intake (non-suppliment), increase your levels of Vitamin D by spending more time in the midday sun, increase your levels of Potassium... and, maybe, increase your levels of Collagen, since the glycine in collagen/gelatin helps your sleep... Glycine is a building block for Glutathione...

Oh! and Beef Liver has the highest levels of Vitamin B12, Niacine and Riboflavin (other B vitamins, I believe B3 and B6). Thiamine is B1 if I'm correct; all responsible for energy levels... Beef liver is also the highest source of Vitamin A. However, another reason we should have been taught nutrition from an early age: there are two vitamin As; what is found in plants and what is found in animal protein. Like bananas and potassium, we have been misled about Carrots and Vitamin A (carrogenan/Beta Carotene)... for eye sight? NO. For strengthening the immune system. For eye sight is Vitamin A from animal protein...

It is possible that Vitamin E (and there are 8 types) is for eyesight, since it protects your cells from AGEs or free radicals that crystalize the cornea... and cause the fracturing of the cornea and the formation of cataracts... The 3 vitamins for protecting the immune system are Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin A... they are also anti-oxidants... It has so much to do with free radicals...

You never thought that nutrition would be interesting?

If I could truly memorize this stuff... The non-Mexican medical students were accepted into medical school because of their capacity to memorize. SO WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD WERE THEY NOT "FORCED" TO MEMORIZE NUTRITION????

And with that, I must go...
Thanks ATX guy! It's awesome when the intellectuals or scientific types etc get together... The things we can learn!

But I still won't be downing raw eggs... Maybe if I had downed a liter of Vodka. But after reading about John Bonham's last breakfast... Actually, I don't have such a tolerance to alcohol. And as I said the other day; not smart for those concerned about pouchitis...
Speaking of alcohol and eggs and since we are in the holiday season, my favorite holiday beverage is Evan Williams' authentic southern style egg nog, which is made with fresh milk and eggs, Kentucky Bourbon, Brandy and Rum. 15% alcohol, 30 proof, and really delicious. Needless to say, it must be refrigerated after opening, just like Bailey's Irish cream whiskey.
Hi Sharon,

I'm going to begin with vitamin B12 and go down the list one by one in different messages.

Have you been diagnosed with Pernicious Anemia, issues with your stomach, such as low stomach acid or Helicobacter Pylori?

I'm still not certain if "they" use enough Ileum for the Pouches to make absorbsion of B12 and issue.

10 to 30 percent of people over the age of 50 have lower absorbtion of Vitamin B12.

With B12 you need enough stomach acid to release the B12 from food. For some strange reason, Helicobacter Pylori cause the stomach to secrete less gastric acid in order to create a comfortable environment for them... Often when people cure themselves of H.Pylori, they develope GERD (Chronic Acid Reflux) and possibly esophagitis and Ulcers in the Esophagus and Stomach... I don't know what would be worse; Pernicious Anemia or GERD. The problem is that GERD and/or stomach or esophagal ulcers can lead to cancer... So, after you remove the H.Pylori, you would go on Proton Pump Inhibitors for reducing the gastric acid. Truthfully, I don't know how much one would want to mess with their chemistry...

You may wish to look into supplementing with Folate or looking into what foods are good sources of folate, since folate deficiency is connected with B12 deficiency. Lentils, Asparagus, Garbanzos and Spinach are very high in Folate; the highest being Lentils.

I wouldn't advise supplementing with Folate, since high levels of Folate can also cause B12 deficiency and/or cover up a B12 deficiency, which can lead to more serious problems.

Also, B6 levels are closely related to B12 levels. So, the B6 must be checked...

I take B6 suppliments, sublingual, and have been taking B's in various forms for the last 30+ yrs...I also take a chewable multi or 2, various minerals, D's?
I eat tons of asperagus and artichokes, green salads, avocados, green beans least 1 daily.
I also eat about 5 fruits/day in various forms and tons of dried fruits (figs, dates, raisins, apricots) and nuts (alomonds, cashews, walnuts) (the only thing that I eat during the day when at work)...apricots are known for high Vit A...most dried fruits are high in Vits and minerals and funnily my numbers are up (last bloodwork dates from last month).
Although I also was eating a lot of hard cheeses so my colesterol was up too (have since reduced that ) .
I am wondering how much of the supplements that I take are actually absorbed? I understand that liquids and sublingual must absorb better but I throwing money out of the window?
For healing I take my collagene and silicium which is getting some great press right now (french researcher discovered the virtues of it) does help and I have been known to use it in liquid form (drank it), gel put directly on my scars and pill form.
Thanks for doing the legwork...I am running out of legs!
Vitamin B6:

Most people over the age of 65 exhibit decreased absorption of Vitamin B6.

Some medications can lead to B6 deficiency, such as steroids, anti-biotics and medication for Parkinson's. The most popular pharmaceutical cause of B6 (and B12) deficiency in women is oral contraceptives...

Like B12, B6 is dependent upon Folate and B12 levels. But is ALSO very dependent upon magnesium levels... The best source of magnesium is Pumpkin Seeds... Spinach is also very high in magnesium... All seeds like sunflower etc are high in magnesium...

Personally, I would get my vitamins and minerals from whole foods... Plus, suppliments don't always give you what your body actually needs. For instance, vitamin E suppliments only give you AlfaTocopherol, which is only 1 of 8 vitamin E-s found in sunflower seeds. The only vitamin D guarranteed to actually make it to your blood is produced in your skin from sunlight and if you suppliment Vitamin D, you need at least 2,200 IUs per day and it must be D3 and not D2. Certain vitamins or minerals cause toxicity over certain levels that does not occur when coming from whole foods. I don't focus much on supplimenting because I live in Mexico where suppliments are very expensive and at doses much lower than recommended or non-existent, if they truly cure... since Mexico is a dumping ground for Pharmaceuticals not allowed by the FDA of the U.S. or the equivalent of other first world nations... And I'm not talking about no-named pharmaceuticals dumping in Mexico what is a high risk killer in the U.S., Canada or Europe. I'm talking about Pfizer, Merck, Squibb etc... "Someone" is making a lot of money in Mexico to offer incredible access to these pharmaceuticals and to block those of important suppliments such as Coenzyme Q10, Vitamin D and phosphatidylcholine...

So, I continue researching on diet etc...

Have your tested your Vitamin D levels? read into Vitamin D deficiency? If not, I believe you would find that incredibly interesting.

Vitamin D deficiency is responsible for muscle fatigue. It also leads to osteoporosis because Vitamin D is responsible for obsorption of Calcium. Your heart requires a certain balance of Calcium in your blood. When those levels drop, your body pulls the calcium out of your bones...

Low calcium levels in your bones leads to brittle bones... Weak skeletal muscle leaves bones unprotected from fractures... So, not only does a vitamin D deficiency weaken your muscles, it also weakens your bones...

"They" also connect Vitamin D with the immune system..., which is why I thought you would find reading on Vitamin D very interesting.

As a matter of fact, Vitamin D is not considered a Vitamin so much as a hormone that is produced in both your kidneys and liver...

If you haven't responded again, I'm going to get off the computer... But, there are also the other B vitamins to look into if your interested. I go on the road on Friday, so I won't be able to respond to this conversation until late December or early January...


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