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Hi all,

All though I am currently married, my marriage will end within 2 years or sooner, depending if my wife gets a job or not, otherwise, I have to hold out until my youngest daughter graduates high school which is in 2 years.

For those of you that know me, my marriage has been a nightmare for more than 20 years of the 26 yrs I am married. Each year seems to get worse and worse.

I am 57 years old and I have a lot to offer someone and have never been unfaithful with my wife although lots of men friends that I do know said I should have cheated many years ago. Cheating is not my nature though.

That being said however, I cannot continue to live this way as life is passing me by. My quandry is I do not feel comforatabe praying to God to help me get a divorce so I can get my marriage annulled as I am a Catholic as God does not approve of divorce. Yet the other side of my brain tells me that God does not want me to be miserable either as HE did not create me to be miserable.

I bring this up now because I have an opportunity to go on a date into NYC with a divorced woman and we have gotten to know each other a little bit. I asked her last week and she said Yes. There is a possibility that this could lead to romance but my current life as it is is, I am not in a position to do so as I am not divorced. However, being a man, I just dont care anymore because my marriage contract has been over for a long, long time.

I can't really say where this will wind up when we go into the city but to be honest, if she wants to be more than just friends, and wants to be sexually intimate, that would be great.

However, the other side of the coin is perhaps she just wants to be no more than friends because of my current situation. In the past, she said she cares for me as a brother or a great friend. If that is the case, and I want more, how would I let her know what my intentions are without just coming out and say it?

If I do not pursue that I want to be sexaully involved, then it looks like that I am not really interested, at least that is what I have come to believe how women think, at least in my experiences.

We will be spending all day in NYC and I have told her there is a great place that I want to treat her to dinner that I always go to when I have had to see my Cancer doctor at Sloan Kettering (I had Kidney Cancer). With wine, and I usually spend close to $200 on just one bottle of wine, it can get expensive.

Any advice from men and women would be greatly appreciated.

RC
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rocket,
I ams sorry that you are still living this nightmare, too bad you could not end it 'naturally' with your wife and move on sooner...nothing worse than living in a marital prison with a locked door at the end of it...marriage should not be a death wish...it should be something warm, loving and friendly even if the passion is no longer there...
That said, you have found a 'distraction' in NYC, someone to maybe get you interested in life and love again...I am not a great believer in infidelity, more the type to finish one story before starting the next...but maybe you could start a warm and loving friendship with this woman...Explain your situation to her and if she is interested then give her a timeline on when you plan to be free.
You do not need to impress a woman with fancy restaurants, expensive wine and food that is off the charts expensive...if she likes you then a walk in the park and a picnic should be fine...fill a basket with lovely foods and good wine and it will cost you a fraction of what you would spend in your favorite restaurant...take her somewhere fun or interesting like a museum or the zoo...money is never a factor in a relationship for a woman...a nice, honest guy with honorable intentions is way more interesting.
Whatever happens, no expectations is a good start, you can never be disappointed that way...and a little hint...do not talk about your wife or marriage more than the strict minimum...it is a real turn-off for the ladies.
Good luck
Sharon
Sharon,

Thanks for your advice. I have been out of the dating game so long I am not even sure what to do. Marital Prison - you hit the nail on the head in describing my marriage.

I have to stay put for now as our most recent argument with my wife is when she wanted my 16 yr old daughter to walk to and from work this summer at a job that is 3 to 4 miles away from our home. This is how messed up my wife is. I had my say with my wife and my daughter will not work under those conditions. Why would I even remotely think of putting my daughter at risk with all the kidnappers and rapists there are in the world?

I felt like I did have to impress a woman with fancy things and I ceratainly would never want someone I cared for have to go to so much trouble to impress me.

OK. No expectations it is. I am not really interested in getting that involved at this point even if I was divorced as I have already been burned once. So I would probably take it slow in that regard.

Rocket
For me, my idea of romance is something akin to the "dinner scene" in "Lady and the Tramp." Yeah, OK, it is hokey, but a cozy Italian joint with a cheap bottle of wine, makes me gooey inside. Maybe it is because that was the first movie we went to see together when my husband and I were dating, and we love simple food in a quiet atmosphere. A little Sinatra playing over the speakers, and I am in heaven. I've been out of circulation for a very long time too, but I am seldom impressed with fancy and expensive.

Jan Big Grin
Thanks Mark, so sweet.
Rocket,
Dating after a nasty marriage reminds me of Bambi after his mother was shot by the hunter...you are shell shocked, in mourning, terrified of being abandoned by the known and lost in the face of the unknown...but dating has not really changed in centuries...it is still about getting to know the other person without scaring them off....and not running for the hills yourself...
I believe it was Joan Rivers who said that the only reason that she dated was so that she could meet someone so that she could stop dating....that is my opinion too.
I always aimed for long term friendships first (plus I had a secret to hide and it took me forever to trust enough to tell them) and once I trusted them sufficiently it could progress to a romantic involvement....worked for me.
Just don't panic...
Sharon
Hey there Rocco,
I see nothing wrong with striking up a friendship. I would be totally honest with her if you both end up with feelings for one and other then like Sharon mentioned, map out a time line explaining your faith and beliefs since you are still married. You deserve to be happy. You are a great guy with a lot to offer someone and you have been stifled for way too long. I would hate to see you pass up on a good thing. I wish for you that you could start the divorce sooner rather than later. Ugh, two years??
quote:
You do not need to impress a woman with fancy restaurants, expensive wine and food that is off the charts expensive

I agree with Sharon...If she likes you then it doesn't matter what you do or how much you spend. I also think communication is key to any good relationship/friendship. So just go and have a good time and good luck! I hope your soon to be ex finds a job soon so you can move on. And if not, if this friend of yours turns out to be more than friends, I would go for it!
Marianne,

Thank you. The reason I am looking at 2 years is my wife is not a stable person and has no issue with the decisions she makes. The latest example is her decision to have my 16 yr old daughter walk to and from work and it is between 3 and 4 miles. I HOWEVER PUT A STOP TO THAT. ITS UNBELIEVABLE THAT THIS HAD TO EVEN BE DISCUSSED. WHAT PARENT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BE OK TO LET THEIR DAUGHTER WALK TO AND FROM WORK IN THIS DAY AND AGE? HER ARGUMNENT IN THIS DISCUSSION IS TELLING ME THAT SHE HAS INSTRUCTED MY DAUGHTER THAT IF SHE IS STOPPED BY SOMEONE, SHE SHOULD TELL THE PERSON HER EMPLOYER EXPECTS HER AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME. I TOLD HER A RAPIST AND/OR KIDNAPPER WOULD NOT GIVE A DAMN FOR ONE AND SECONDLY, KATIE WOULD HARDLY GET OUT 5 WORDS BEFORE SHE IS OVER-POWERED. THERE IS MORE TO THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA. I SAID I WOULD PICK HER UP AFTER WORK BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO DROP HER OFF. MY WIFE SAID THAT IS NOT CONVENIENT FOR ME AS I MIGHT HAVE A JOB.

I was able to stop that before it even began because I live there. The kids are brainwashed by their crazy mother. My wife is a person who demands and forces her will upon others and even God does not do that as God gave us a Free Will.

My Son had a summer job interview at the high school and the week before, I told him that with a summer job, you will not be getting a vacation with your mom, to make eye contact, smile and things like that. As usual, my wife takes my kids on vacation (I am not welcome) each year with money she gets from her parents.

I come home from work and asked how it went and he said fine. My wife tells me that there is 1 job and 16 students applied and she had my son tell them on the interview that he will be unable to work from July 23 to the end of the following week because he is on vacation with his family. Then she also has the nerve to tell me since he might be working, that I could not take him on vacation either other than a long weekend. I'm like, WHAT? This should never be said on a summer job interview. If my son got the job, I would tell him to ask his employer what is the policy regarding vacatoin for a summer job? If there is no policy and I am expected here, that is fine, I really want the job. But to tell them that on an interview? Stupid.

You see with my wife, its not about my son or about my daughter, its about her. My son to work in the summer does not fit with my wife's needs or wants.

Now, my wife has brainwashed my kids and there are a lot of things that I do not know about. God forbid, if my daughter works that way without me knowing it and something happened, I could never forgive myself.

So I see myself trapped in this prison because she is nuts. I honestly believe that if I was out of the house I would feel alot better, mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Either that, or be grateful to God if HE permits a serious illness where she is Incapacitated. However, I don't believe in Kharma and my wife is a Cross I have to bear and I hate this.

This is why I feel so trapped. I figure when my daughter graduates high-school, she will be driving by then. However, in so doing, I have to give up my happiness in life. I don't like the idea if I file that she would be entitled to $2,100 a month in alimony until I retire, but I would rather be out and not have all the money I am used to having.

Rocket
Alysia,

Thank you. I don't go out very often for obvious reasons, but when I go into the city, I like to have a great time.

I don't drink every night and sometimes not even once a night during a week or two, but when I go into the city, I tend to splurge on the good stuff.

Its nice to know that I don't have to spend a lot to impress. In my life, women always see me as just a nice guy and nothing more. I am depressed about this, because my experiences dicated this to me. I have never been an agressive man to force myself on anyone to be intimate. For a short period when I was in my late 20's I did. I had more luck with women when I had just one intention and then would dump them once I had what I wanted. But when I was being politie, treating them like a lady and with respect, I never had very many dates or they would dump me. To this day, I never understood why the women I met preferred a "bad boy" mentallity over someone who was a nice guy.

Rocket
quote:
The latest example is her decision to have my 16 yr old daughter walk to and from work and it is between 3 and 4 miles. I HOWEVER PUT A STOP TO THAT. ITS UNBELIEVABLE THAT THIS HAD TO EVEN BE DISCUSSED. WHAT PARENT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BE OK TO LET THEIR DAUGHTER WALK TO AND FROM WORK IN THIS DAY AND AGE?


Um... many. Many parents would allow this. I walked two miles to and from my summer job at the age of 16 which wasn't very long ago. Do you live in the middle of a gangland? I agree it's a long walk but personally I would never want to raise my daughter to believe that she can't independently walk outside without the threat of imminent rape and murder.

I recommend you seek therapy before getting involved with another woman. You have so much bitterness toward your wife right now -- and I'm not claiming it's unjustified, it's simply a lot -- and it seems like some of that is coming out directed at women in general. It will be a lot harder to work through these issues if you're already in a new relationship, and quite frankly you'll be doing a disserve to any woman you might date if you do so without taking the time to be thoughtful and critical about your feelings with regard to relationships.

My two cents.
As a parent, I don't blame you about not wanting your daughter walking to and from work. With some of the weirdos I have seen around the area lately, I wouldn't either but that's my worry wart personality.

I just don't have any advice for you....I wish I did. If you both could separate, could the kids go with you? It sounds like she would probably like that since they are an inconvenience to her.
Hi Marianne,

My kids are both teenagers. My son just turned 18 and my daughter turned 16 today.

My wife would want the kids to stay with her because that gives her more control. She loves to control. And my kids are of an age where they can choose to decide which parent they stay with and they would choose to stay with her. My kids feel like they need their mother because she is keeping that control so they will always need her.

On the other hand, I want my kids to be self-independent so they can take care of themselves as they mature and grow.

I wish I had the answers to my life but I just don't know what the correct thing(s) to do are.

Its all about control when it comes to my wife. She wants total control. It aggravets her to no end that she feels and/or believes that she has to be the man and the woman of the house, yet by the same token, though she does not want to be the man of the house, she refuses to relinquish any control.

For example; Three years ago, I decided to handle the household finances and pay all the bills for example. Once I did, and since I make most of the money and I have direct depoist to my Credit Union and she has no access, she call me a stupid macho guinea bastard. WHen she handled all the bills, she would monitor everything I spent when I would use my ATM card to purchase gas or buy some products. We were always in the RED. She once cursed me out for filling up my car with Gas saying we were already in the RED. I reminded her that I can't fly and I have to drive to work.
Rocket,
I am about 8-years post surgery, and without problems significant enough to spend a lot of time here at the j-pouch community. I saw your thread as coincidence, but your situation really speaks to me. Without making this about me, I just want to say that I really appreciate your humility and honesty in this conversation, and that I will certainly include you in my daily prayers that God guides you in the best way for you.

I feel for you, brother.

Mark
Sounds like things have been dysfunctional for a very long time, with poor communications. Usually, I'd say staying together for the kids is not such a great idea, since the kids feel the strain as much as anyone. But, it sounds like she would attempt to cut off your access to the kids if you were not present in the home, particularly since she has them aligned with her. On the other hand, I don't see how that will change in two years. I am sorry you are having to deal with all of this, but I think the idea of counseling is good, so that you can have a fresh outlook once you decide to leave the marriage. You don't want this baggage to follow you forever.

I have a friend who was involved in an ugly divorce and her husband worked on the kids so that they did not want contact with her. They were all teenagers and older at the time, so there was no court ordered visitation or custody. It took almost a decade for her to reconnect with them, and it was not until they were all in their 20's and 30's before they could see how manipulative their dad was with them. One kid wound up writing them both off.

There are no winners in these things.... Frowner

Jan Smiler
Marianne,

Thank you for your prayers and compliments. I really don't know what God has planned for me. No one deserves the treatment I have gotten.

Mark,

Thank you for your prayers and your compliments. Based on your post, it appears you are in somewhat the same situation as you said it really speaks to you. I hope that is not the case.

Rocket
Jan,

I agree with what you said in regards to the children. The children are the loosers in this whole mess and they are the only ones who are totally innocent in the whole process.

If I was a woman, I would have it a lot easier but being the man, the law will side with her even though she was both verbally, mentally, emotionally and physically abusive. My mistake is I never called 911 as I did not think that was the "man" thing to do and was embarrassed. For many years, I used to live in fear of my own safety because she is nuts, but shrewed.

Right now, the worst part is my extreme hate for her. If it wasn't for her, I am sure I would have a much healther life without all my physical problems. I don't think its any coincedence that I developed Ulcerative Colitis 10 months after we met. The worst part is this hate only hurts me, not her. I know that.

As for counseling, NO, I have been there and done that many times. My wife never does and she is the one with the mental problems.

And although I am still married in the eyes of God, and the law, there is nothing preventing me to practice infedility if I so desire and the opportunity presents itself. No, I am not the kind of heel who would pursue anyone who is married.

But single or divorced is a differnt story for me. The law does not care if a spouse has numerous affairs either in the state of NJ (My attorney told me that).

I would be honest with who ever it is of my current situation at home. Honesty is very important to me but the one thing I am looking for down the road is "RESPECT." I never got that. And because of that, I would rather be married to someone who Respected me first, above everything else, incl. love.

Rocket
Roc, I can only imagine what it must be like to live in your shoes. But, I cannot visualize myself living with someone I despised, so I commend your resolve to stay on board until your daughter is an adult.

The counseling I think was suggested for you, not because you have a mental problem to solve, but to help you learn to let go, even if it means your kids will have to navigate their own mine fields. In these sorts of situations, the person with the narcissistic personality never sees any fault in themselves, so it is a waste of everyone's efforts to try to bring them around. I am sure you have tried many times...to no avail, and to come out accused of stirring up trouble that the other did not see as existing. But, I understand why you'd feel "done" and not want counseling...

Take care and focus on you, friends who value who you are, and your children. I agree that respect is very important in any relationship. My husband and I were best friends before we were ever in love. You have to like someone before you can love.

Jan Smiler
Rocket,
My best freind (kind, bright, shiny, carissmatic person) made the same 'mistake' as you in marriage...he married a woman who was not adapted to him and his needs...things became very obvious within weeks but she was pregnant and he had longed for a baby for yrs...his son (my God-son) was the light of his life but his marriage was the darkness...she yell, screamed, insulted, belittled and incriminated him at every oppertunity, didn't care who was listening or where they were...he took it for the sake of his son (who used to hold both hands over his ears and mumble while she screamed)...he never yelled back, biding his time until the kid turned 10 (that was his mental cut off point)...He thought that he could get custody being that she was really not a competent mother (he is very maternal)...
Well it is 12yrs later...he left, way too late, his kid is a mess (22 and no direction, no goals and no life).
The marriage took his business, his heart and soul..she turned his son against him for yrs and he lost him (they are trying to crawl back to each other but with difficulty)...My BF is now 61, has no home, no business and no son...would he have changed his past actions if he had known? YES. He would have left sooner, saved his soul and gotten a real life....now he only has a shell of a man with regrets (and it breaks my heart)...your kids will love and respect you more if you leave while you can, get a real life where you are happy and in a good place where life is joyful...and they will be happier too...
Just my 2 cents worth
Sharon
Sharon,

WOW. That is so very sad and cruel. What I hate most of all is they get away with it. Its too bad they do not get what they deserve. I used to believe in Kharma but do not anymore.

I guess that old saying is true, "Bad things happen to Good People." And at the same time, the people who cause all this get away with it.

I contacted my attorney yesterday so I have to first get my will and all my assets and make my brother the primary beneficiary of everything holding things in a trust from my kids.

If I predecease my wife, I don't want her to get any control over it. My kids would have to show and prove why they need the money for things like, a car, college, a home and things like that.

Rocket

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