Help! I just got a letter in the mail saying he's leaving CCF as of 11/15/2019. Does anyone know where he's gone? Why? I am so panicked I didn't know
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I haven’t heard where he’s going... I’m sadden by this.... I may call to see if they will tell me!! Yes, US J Pouch team need to stick together...
if you hear let me know...
He’s reportedly going to New York City (Columbia Presbyterian). There is another thread with more details in the General Discussion forum.
Thank-you
Thank you so much glad he can be near his family
i always flew from Houston to see him -paid out of pocket for the scope too so I will reach out to him when he gets settled in NYC
Are there any people here who understand non competes? He’s saying he can’t see CCF people at his new place? I’m cash pay
I found out he was leaving a few months ago. He told me not to say anything. I am a long time patient of his and I live in Cleveland. I was deemed his most difficult patient..lol.. Things have changed at Cleveland Clinic, he wasn't getting the funding he wanted for research I guess. Philosophies have changed there and they are more focused on heart and cancer care. A lot of the good surgeons left about 3-4 years ago when new leadership took over, including my surgeon the great Dr Remzi. Dr Shen's daughter goes to an Ivy league school out there and he felt it was a good time to go. I for one am very upset he is leaving as he has helped me so much and has done things no other doctor would every even know about or try. I don't know if I will travel to see him yet, as I don't know if my insurance will cover it or if I want to make a 7 hour drive or expensive flight. I am just sad..
Please, please anyone let me know if you find another Dr at Cleveland Clinic that’s good...
thanks
Guys he must have signed a no compete because he says he can’t take patients from CCF how is this possible
help lawyers out there with this one!!!
People change doctors all the time, so the non-compete doesn’t make sense. There was a new phone number for Shen on the letter from CC with a NY (212j area code. The letter says “if you need to contact Dr. Shen” call this number. I will be calling soon after Nov 15, to get an appt. and have records sent from CC. I imagine a lot of his pouch patients will also be calling.
I was thinking same thing, if we call his new office there’s no way you can’t follow him!! I actually called today to see him before the 15th but no appointment.
also, if you are a part of “my chart” you can see all your test, blood etc on there!!
I've been emailing him today which is why I am posting this. He told me that he is not able to "take" any patients that "belong" to Cleveland Clinic. In my experience when physicians say this it means there is a non compete and they can get in some kind of legal tangle.
My insurance never paid for Cleveland so I always save up and pay cash. This is not about insurance.
Thank-You, unfair to patient...to me a patient is your Paitent and if they want to go with the Dr they shouldn’t be an issue...
We ALL should do something about this!!
marz posted:People change doctors all the time, so the non-compete doesn’t make sense. There was a new phone number for Shen on the letter from CC with a NY (212j area code. The letter says “if you need to contact Dr. Shen” call this number. I will be calling soon after Nov 15, to get an appt. and have records sent from CC. I imagine a lot of his pouch patients will also be calling.
I know people change doctors. I am a health care provider myself .
Dr Shen is emailing me that he can’t see pouch patients that he saw at Cleveland Clinic. He’s been my physician for 11 years.
That is very unfair. I wonder if the NY hospital will ask for a referral, even if insurance doesn’t require it?
how will CC know if we switch to Columbia? Obviously Dr shen will know if we were his patient at CC, but will he refuse to see us?
The non compete agreement Is part of a contract between an employer and an employee. I think it’s more likely that the non compete clause was in the contract with CC and not with NY-Presbyterian, to discourage Shen from leaving CC for another job. A reasonable guess is that Shen was offered enough money by NY Presbyterian that he wasn’t sufficiently discouraged by the non compete.
I have seen the agreement in employment contracts signed by attorneys and I see no reason why a doctor could not be required to sign one as a condition of employment. It CC made him sign one as a condition of his employment, they would have to agree to waive the provision and maybe they don’t want to. Maybe they don’t want other hospitals raiding their patient base and traveling elsewhere. It’s a hospital that caters to medical tourists so this isn’t really any surprise to me. Mayo Clinic may do the same thing with their top gun medical experts.
If you don’t like it hire an attorney to write a letter and ask CC to waive it. I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting on an affirmative response.
marz posted:how will CC know if we switch to Columbia? Obviously Dr shen will know .........but will he refuse to see us?
Good question. I have been involved in some litigation involving non competes in other industries and the short and simple answer is “loose lips sink ships.” Lack of discretion. People in the industry talk, it gets back to administrators and then we attorneys get involved. For these reasons, and again I am guessing, if Shen retained an employment attorney he was probably counseled on these issues and the consequences of violating the noncompete. As noted previously, he was probably offered significant enough money by NY Presbyterian that the discouragement of the non compete to take his services elsewhere was overcome. Shen has a right to work for whomever he wants, and he is not required to stay at a job that maybe he didn’t like. Non-compete clauses of employment contracts contemplate these possibilities.
Thank you so much for explaining it so well.
CT what do you recommend ?
Without seeing the non-compete agreement I couldn’t venture any recommendations other than asking CC to grant a hardship waiver. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but I don’t really see it going anywhere. The issue is really between Shen and CC. All of you are not parties to the contract.
I would ask Shen if the non-compete is time limited. Sometimes they are enforceable only for a period of time (like 3 years). If so, you would have to wait for the 3 years to be up. The only way to know is ask Shen if it’s time limited.
The contract would likely spell out which State’s law applies to its provisions and Ohio law is a reasonable guess if the contract was made in Ohio. If so Ohio law on the enforceability and limitations of non-compete agreements would apply. I don’t know anything about it but you may want to speak to an employment law attorney in Ohio.
Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate this. I am very confused as to what to do. I just emailed him and asked him if his non compete is time limited.
Please can’t you post once you find out!!!
thanks
I think it is disgusting and immoral for CC to deny a patient the ability to receive needed medical care from a physician who has seen them for a long period of time. If it is critical for her to be seen by Dr. Shen and she has significant concerns about going to a different doctor, she should have an attorney draft a letter that mentions the possibility of a lawsuit if an exception is not granted.
Healthcare is a business!!!!
I am going to have to strategize to figure this all out
Healthcare is indeed a business, and it’s not really any different than any other business. The goal is to be profitable and you aren’t profitable if you lose a number of patients to another facility because of non-enforcement of a non compete agreement.
Engaging an attorney to write letters with veiled threats can be attempted, but I am not overly optimistic it will be successful, for the common sense reasons that if one exception is allowed, then others will also have to be allowed, and then CC goes down a slippery slope on which the non compete becomes effectively unenforceable. I am not trying to discourage anyone from this course of action, but rather encourage all to be realistic on the expectations. I do believe in a “nothing ventured, nothing gained” rationale or philosophy in situations like this, but try not to get anyone’s hopes up because retaining an attorney could end up being a waste of money.
I am guessing Shen’s non-compete is time limited. The ones I have seen in Connecticut are usually 3 years and that’s due to some law in Connecticut on non compete agreements having to be reasonable in their duration and in geographical limitations, as many businesses are territorial in nature. If it is time limited, your “divorce” from Shen isn’t permanent, it’s just for some period of time, and perhaps CC has one of his protégées still on staff to shepherd your treatment needs for a few years until the noncompete runs out.
He might not turn down an appointment made through his staff. It’s possible that he’s just not allowed to solicit his CC patients.
I was under the impression that some folks here already tried to get in touch with Shen about an appointment in NYC and he said no and invoked the non-compete. They were not solicited to follow him. Contacting staff seems to me like an end around, but I suppose it can be tried and worst thing is he says no again. Problems could arise if they identify themselves as new patients and get an appointment that way, or else fail to divulge the CC connection. Those kinds of things end up leaking out and before long attorneys will be involved.
Yes you are completely correct. He said no. That is what I am posting about.
It’s unusual to contact a doctor directly about making an appointment. The ordinary method is to contact his office. Has anyone actually been turned down for an appointment through that standard approach? I’m not suggesting pretending to be a new patient.
I am very confused by this.. so he leaves for another hospital in another state, and I cannot go to see him if I want? maybe since hes still employed he just cant say it or suggest it. But once he is no longer employed there, he can say sure come see me.. When Dr Remzi left CCF I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't go to NYC to see him and continue our care with him.. this makes no sense
I agree this is very unfair, when you have a DR you trust, which Dr Shen new my Drs in CA before moving to PA so I had so much trust in him and now just two years later they don’t allow us to see the Dr we choose... who can say you may NOT see the Dr you trust..this is our body’s....
i May have said this in an earlier post but it’s heartbreaking!
Pouchomarx posted:When Dr Remzi left CCF I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't go to NYC to see him and continue our care with him.. this makes no sense
Perhaps Dr. Remzi did not sign an employment agreement with a non-compete clause. If so, he would be free to see anyone he wants to see.
Another possibility to resolve this situation is for NY Presbyterian/Shen, if enough CC patients commit to following him to NYC, to buy out the noncompete. Read this:
https://www.smoothtransitionsl...-non-compete-buyout/
Another possibility to negotiate it out is for Dr. Shen/Presbyterian to split the fees on any CC patients who follow him, sort of like a referral fee. The standard in the legal profession is one third of the net fee earned goes to the referring attorney; I have entered such agreements many times on both sides. Maybe CC can be made to release the noncompete with a similar fee sharing agreement. I would try to mediate it with that mindset for a resolution. Because right now neither CC nor NY Pres is making ANY money on you guys and they have the power to change that.
To implement the approach outlined above, you would have to identify the attorneys for CC and for Dr. Shen and NY Presbyterian- possibly 3 different attorneys- and then send one letter addressed to all 3, explaining that due to the noncompete, the client and others like her wish to continue with Dr. Shen and have no intention to see anyone else at CC, and wish a resolution of the situation which would allow both parties to benefit. And then request a joint mediation in which a fee sharing agreement can be discussed. Again, this is in the category of nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Looking for Dr Shen’s new number at Columbia Presbyterian. tyia
I think it’s the parents right to SEE the Dr they want know matter what!!!
UNFAIR!!
TAJ posted:I think it’s the parents right to SEE the Dr they want know matter what!!!
UNFAIR!!
I don't need my parents permission...lol
I meant PATIENT!! Lol these phones!!
Pouchomarx postedI don't need my parents permission...lol
I recall a prior post in which you discussed your own children and it occurred to me that if you needed your parents' permission to make an appointment with Dr. Shen, then who the heck is giving permissions to your kids to do anything? I did read that post the same way. LOL
I wish I would of found ya'll sooner. Yesterday was Dr. Shens last day [Thursday Oct 31st 2019]
I had my last appointment with him Tuesday Oct 29. He recommend I see Dr. Philpott. He said she was good. Which I hope she is, cause I can be complicated. Like some of you I was/still distress about this. I have been Dr. Shen's patient for 17 year. When Ann told me I cried. He's been like a father to me. I could tell he was upset with how he's been treated by CC. He said he couldn't give any personal information but give it a couple of weeks and nothing you couldn't find with a quick Google search. lol. But he seemed to look forward to his 2 weeks of vacation but after he gets to NY he's going to China. He told me not to worry because he still has 20 years of work left so he wasn't retiring. I always told him he couldn't retire lol
If I can figure out a way to go to NY or move I definitely will try. Because like I always said he is the best. Just about all of my Doctors have left the CC I knew something was going on but didn't know what. I always knew it wasn't about the money with him. It's always been about his patients.
I felt the same way, before moving to PA my Drs I had for 17 years was at Cedar Sini and they work with Dr Shen and travel to China with him...I moved to PA, I was so LUCKY to have had Dr Shen for such a short time...
(still I will never feel it’s fair to all the patients that want to stick with him and can’t)
Wish ALL the J Pouch (family) the BEST!!!
TAJ posted:I felt the same way, before moving to PA my Drs I had for 17 years was at Cedar Sini and they work with Dr Shen and travel to China with him...I moved to PA, I was so LUCKY to have had Dr Shen for such a short time...
(still I will never feel it’s fair to all the patients that want to stick with him and can’t)
Wish ALL the J Pouch (family) the BEST!!!
I am still not buying this... I believe if once hes established in NYC that we couldn't get an appointment with him there.. I think he just wasn't allowed to talk about it while still employed there and I get that.. But now that hes gone, I just don't see how they can tell you know at his new place..
I’m hoping you are correct!
I am in a huge Jpouch Facebook group and they have all said that's BS, he just cant recruit you to come see him there if you are a CCF patient.. But if you want to schedule an appointment with him in NYC , you sure can do that.
That would make a world of difference for me.... thanks
Anyone have an update to this? Has anyone successfully scheduled with Shen in NY yet? I am a former patient of his at CLE Clinic and hoping to schedule with him soon (luckily I have copies of all of my medical records and tests). Looking for tips and tricks before I call, are they really denying folks on the NYC/Presbyterian end??
why not call and ask?, I doubt they are turning patients away.
Hello everyone, I've been trying to contact Prof. Bo Shen and couldn't find his new email. maybe someone here can assist me? thanks!
Thank you, I wanted to send an email though, and couldn't find the new email address anywhere... Any ideas?
Just found this article about Dr shen's new position in NY—he starts Dec 1
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu...xperts-join-columbia
No email given, but I would imagine you could call his new office.
let us know. I may call in January to become a new (but really)former patient in NY.
I unfortunately won't be able to follow Dr Shen. Anyone have a recommendation on a good provider at CCF that I can transition to?? Better to stick with GI or go back to being followed by colorectal surgeon?
I seen Dr. Philpott she seemed nice. It was who Dr. Shen reccomend.
Strongerlynn posted:I seen Dr. Philpott she seemed nice. It was who Dr. Shen reccomend.
please tell us about her, it was who Dr Shen was recommending but nobody knows anything about her.. What has she learned from Dr Shen and can she do anything that Dr Shen did or does she just do pouchoscopies?
Yes that would be helpful. When they called to let me know Shen was leaving, they said his patients were being referred to Brzezinski, Philpott, and Cozzy(not sure of spelling??). But I know nothing about any of them. And have heard other patients were given a different list to choose from??
Ryannsmom posted:Yes that would be helpful. When they called to let me know Shen was leaving, they said his patients were being referred to Brzezinski, Philpott, and Cozzy(not sure of spelling??). But I know nothing about any of them. And have heard other patients were given a different list to choose from??
my list was:
Brzezinski, Click, Qazi, Sullivan, and Philpott
Yes!! When they first called I was told the name Qazi. Then when I called back and asked the secretary, she said Qazi, Philpott, and Brzezinski. Does anyone know anything about QAZI???
I live in Cleveland and have been seeing my docs there since 2008 and I have never heard of any of them.. very odd
Quazi is new. I saw him at Boston Med in June. He told me he was going to cle. I think he did residency there, he knew Shen and all about needle knife procedure. He said there was no one like Shen. Don’t know if he knew Shen was leaving at that time.
he seemed fine.
Pouchomarx posted:I am in a huge Jpouch Facebook group and they have all said that's BS, he just cant recruit you to come see him there if you are a CCF patient.. But if you want to schedule an appointment with him in NYC , you sure can do that.
TheoG33 posted:Anyone have an update to this? Has anyone successfully scheduled with Shen in NY yet? I am a former patient of his at CLE Clinic and hoping to schedule with him soon (luckily I have copies of all of my medical records and tests). Looking for tips and tricks before I call, are they really denying folks on the NYC/Presbyterian end??
yes, I called to schedule.
please see his link and contact number/fax I found.
I have seen Dr. Brzezinski, about 10 years ago for 1 appt and he worked with Dr. SHEN. I am looking for someone who specializes in fistulas from the pouch, which is how I found out shen left . He has hopefully left a mark and his peers in the clinic can carry on his teachings..
I am in Detroit and work at a hospital and my hospital now requires I stay in their system.. very frustrating when there are better options out there
ChelleH posted:I have seen Dr. Brzezinski, about 10 years ago for 1 appt and he worked with Dr. SHEN. I am looking for someone who specializes in fistulas from the pouch, which is how I found out shen left . He has hopefully left a mark and his peers in the clinic can carry on his teachings..
I am in Detroit and work at a hospital and my hospital now requires I stay in their system.. very frustrating when there are better options out there
I don't think anyone there is nearly as good as Shen or can do the things he can do. I just scheduled a new patient appt with Philpott to see what shes about and what her capabilities are. I am on my 2nd pouch and Shen has been with me for 10 years and helped me greatly with my odd issues, I am afraid for my future without him being in my backyard any longer
I don't disagree pouchomarx... 2nd pouch? I didn't know that was an option? I was just trying to be a little positive
ChelleH posted:I don't disagree pouchomarx... 2nd pouch? I didn't know that was an option? I was just trying to be a little positive
Yes I had my original surgery in 2008 and had a lot of issues and almost died from infection. My original surgeon at Cleveland Clinic and Dr Shen tried many procedures and even experimental surgeries to try and correct my issues but over 5 year or so they all failed. I had a total pouch redo with Dr Remzi at Cleveland Clinic just before he left for NYC as well. He is considered the BEST when it comes to pouch issues and redo surgeries. Things are nowhere near perfect for me but much better.
I didn't know if you know or not but Dr. Remzi is very active on Twitter.
Has anyone from Cleveland successfully made an appointment with him yet?
Pouchomarx, that's amazing! You've been through a lot. The Cleveland clinic, Dr. Lavery, also saved my life in 2002. I had toximegacolon and perforation, sepsis, the works. Now I have continued pouchitis, which is how I found Dr. Shen.. but haven't seen him for 6 years due to insurance. I was on remicade, that worked for 10 years, just tried entyvio for 6 months and now have fistulas everywhere .. and chrons of the pouch. I don't want to lose my pouch.... we are trying humira, since remicade worked and it's also a TNF blocker.. I am working on appealing my insurance because I know CCF will have more options.. continued luck to you
Strongerlynn posted:I didn't know if you know or not but Dr. Remzi is very active on Twitter.
Yes I am aware. I actually still talk with him a few times a month. We have become somewhat friends. When he comes to Cleveland we meet up and supposed to do lunch next time hes in town. He is an awesome surgeon and person
Does anyone have a current phone number for Bo Shen? We have been trying to reach him at the number listed on online in his Columbia bio (212-305-5664) to no avail. The voicemail greeting references a different doctor, not Shen. Thanks
MM123 posted:Does anyone have a current phone number for Bo Shen? We have been trying to reach him at the number listed on online in his Columbia bio (212-305-5664) to no avail. The voicemail greeting references a different doctor, not Shen. Thanks
Maybe he realizes he made a mistake and hes coming back to CCF? lol I could only wish.
It’s strange because this is the only number that comes up on a Google Search and the website seems to be blocking access to calling the number as well. Dr. Shen is, effectively, now an unlisted number.
CTBarrister posted:It’s strange because this is the only number that comes up on a Google Search and the website seems to be blocking access to calling the number as well. Dr. Shen is, effectively, now an unlisted number.
After a couple of days worth of sleuthing, and many, many dead end phone calls, we did finally get an accurate number for Dr. Shen's office. 212-305-9664 (the posted number was off by a digit - possibly a typo). After we ultimately made contact once, seeking an appointment, the office has been disappointingly unresponsive, rarely responding to voicemails or emails. We are quite frustrated and are about to give up on Dr. Shen, despite the wonderful things we have read about him here.
I would be calling every day. That's how I roll. That is not how his office is normally run. But if you need someone quick I understand.
Strongerlynn posted:I would be calling every day. That's how I roll. That is not how his office is normally run. But if you need someone quick I understand.
We did ultimately get in touch with Dr. Shen's office and have scheduled an appointment. It seems the office is not quite fully functional yet - the woman who I spoke to, Linda, was frenzied (but ultimately very friendly and accomodating) and said they are adjusting to new processes and systems, etc. following the move. Just wanted to put this out there, for anyone else who is having issues reaching the office....
Hi, does anyone has Dr Shen's email address? This is for my local doctor to contact him about me.
thanks!
(212) 305-9664