I found out he was leaving a few months ago. He told me not to say anything. I am a long time patient of his and I live in Cleveland. I was deemed his most difficult patient..lol.. Things have changed at Cleveland Clinic, he wasn't getting the funding he wanted for research I guess. Philosophies have changed there and they are more focused on heart and cancer care. A lot of the good surgeons left about 3-4 years ago when new leadership took over, including my surgeon the great Dr Remzi. Dr Shen's daughter goes to an Ivy league school out there and he felt it was a good time to go. I for one am very upset he is leaving as he has helped me so much and has done things no other doctor would every even know about or try. I don't know if I will travel to see him yet, as I don't know if my insurance will cover it or if I want to make a 7 hour drive or expensive flight. I am just sad..

People change doctors all the time, so the non-compete doesn’t make sense. There was a new phone number for Shen on the letter from CC with a NY (212j area code. The letter says “if you need to contact Dr. Shen” call this number. I will be calling soon after Nov 15, to get an appt. and have records sent from CC. I imagine a lot of his pouch patients will also be calling.

I was thinking same thing, if we call his new office there’s no way you can’t follow him!! I actually called today to see him before the 15th but no appointment.

also, if you are a part of “my chart” you can see all your test, blood etc on there!!

 

I've been emailing him today which is why I am posting this. He told me that he is not able to "take" any patients that "belong" to Cleveland Clinic. In my experience when physicians say this it means there is a non compete and they can get in some kind of legal tangle. 

My insurance never paid for Cleveland so I always save up and pay cash. This is not about insurance.

marz posted:

People change doctors all the time, so the non-compete doesn’t make sense. There was a new phone number for Shen on the letter from CC with a NY (212j area code. The letter says “if you need to contact Dr. Shen” call this number. I will be calling soon after Nov 15, to get an appt. and have records sent from CC. I imagine a lot of his pouch patients will also be calling.

I know people change doctors. I am a health care provider myself .

Dr Shen is emailing me that he can’t see pouch patients that he saw at Cleveland Clinic. He’s been my physician for 11 years.

That is very unfair. I wonder if the NY hospital will ask for a referral, even if insurance doesn’t require it?

how will CC know if we switch to Columbia? Obviously Dr shen will know if we were his patient at CC, but will he refuse to see us?

The non compete agreement Is part of a contract between an employer and an employee. I think it’s more likely that the non compete clause was in the contract with CC and not with NY-Presbyterian, to discourage Shen from leaving CC for another job. A reasonable guess is that Shen was offered enough money by NY Presbyterian that he wasn’t sufficiently discouraged by the non compete.

I have seen the agreement in employment contracts signed by attorneys and I see no reason why a doctor could not be required to sign one as a condition of employment.  It CC made him sign one as a condition of his employment, they would have to agree to waive the provision and maybe they don’t want to. Maybe they don’t want other hospitals raiding their patient base and traveling elsewhere. It’s a hospital that caters to medical tourists so this isn’t really any surprise to me. Mayo Clinic may do the same thing with their top gun medical experts.

If you don’t like it hire an attorney to write a letter and ask CC to waive it. I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting on an affirmative response.

marz posted:

how will CC know if we switch to Columbia? Obviously Dr shen will know .........but will he refuse to see us?

Good question. I have been involved in some litigation involving non competes in other industries and the short and simple answer is “loose lips sink ships.” Lack of discretion. People in the industry talk, it gets back to administrators and then we attorneys get involved. For these reasons, and again I am guessing, if Shen retained an employment attorney he was probably counseled on these issues and the consequences of violating the noncompete. As noted previously, he was probably offered significant enough money by NY Presbyterian that the discouragement of the non compete to take his services elsewhere was overcome. Shen has a right to work for whomever he wants, and he is not required to stay at a job that maybe he didn’t like. Non-compete clauses of employment contracts contemplate these possibilities.

Without seeing the non-compete agreement I couldn’t venture any recommendations other than asking CC to grant a hardship waiver. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but I don’t really see it going anywhere. The issue is really between Shen and CC. All of you are not parties to the contract.

I would ask Shen if the non-compete is time limited. Sometimes they are enforceable only for a period of time (like 3 years). If so, you would have to wait for the 3 years to be up. The only way to know is ask Shen if it’s time limited.

The contract would likely spell out which State’s law applies to its provisions and Ohio law is a reasonable guess if the contract was made in Ohio. If so Ohio law on the enforceability and limitations of non-compete agreements would apply. I don’t know anything about it but you may want to speak to an employment law attorney in Ohio.

I think it is disgusting and immoral for CC to deny a patient the ability to receive needed medical care from a physician who has seen them for a long period of time.  If it is critical for her to be seen by Dr. Shen and she has significant concerns about going to a different doctor, she should have an attorney draft a letter that mentions the possibility of a lawsuit if an exception is not granted.

Healthcare is indeed a business, and it’s not really any different than any other business. The goal is to be profitable and you aren’t profitable if you lose a number of patients to another facility because of non-enforcement of a non compete agreement.

Engaging an attorney to write letters with veiled threats can be attempted, but I am not overly optimistic it will be successful, for the common sense reasons that if one exception is allowed, then others will also have to be allowed, and then CC goes down a slippery slope on which the non compete becomes effectively unenforceable. I am not trying to discourage anyone from this course of action, but rather encourage all to be realistic on the expectations. I do believe in a “nothing ventured, nothing gained” rationale or philosophy  in situations like this, but try not to get anyone’s hopes up because retaining an attorney could end up being a waste of money.

I am guessing Shen’s non-compete is time limited. The ones I have seen in Connecticut are usually 3 years and that’s due to some law in Connecticut on non compete agreements having to be reasonable in their duration and in geographical limitations, as many businesses are territorial in nature. If it is time limited, your “divorce” from Shen isn’t permanent, it’s just for some period of time, and perhaps CC has one of his protégées still on staff to shepherd your treatment needs for a few years until the noncompete runs out.

I was under the impression that some folks here already tried to get in touch with Shen about an appointment in NYC and he said no and invoked the non-compete.  They were not solicited to follow him. Contacting staff seems to me like an end around, but I suppose it can be tried and worst thing is he says no again. Problems could arise if they identify themselves as new patients and get an appointment that way, or else fail to divulge the CC connection.  Those kinds of things end up leaking out and before long attorneys will be involved.

It’s unusual to contact a doctor directly about making an appointment. The ordinary method is to contact his office. Has anyone actually been turned down for an appointment through that standard approach? I’m not suggesting pretending to be a new patient.

I am very confused by this.. so he leaves for another hospital in another state, and I cannot go to see him if I want? maybe since hes still employed he just cant say it or suggest it. But once he is no longer employed there, he can say sure come see me..  When Dr Remzi left CCF I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't go to NYC to see him and continue our care with him.. this makes no sense

I agree this is very unfair, when you have a DR you trust, which Dr Shen new my Drs in CA before moving to PA so I had so much trust in him and now just two years later they don’t allow us to see the Dr we choose... who can say you may NOT see the Dr you trust..this is our body’s.... 

i May have said this in an earlier post but it’s heartbreaking! 

 

Pouchomarx posted:

When Dr Remzi left CCF I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't go to NYC to see him and continue our care with him.. this makes no sense

Perhaps Dr. Remzi did not sign an employment agreement with a non-compete clause.  If so, he would be free to see anyone he wants to see.

Another possibility to resolve this situation is for NY Presbyterian/Shen, if enough CC patients commit to following him to NYC, to buy out the noncompete.  Read this:

https://www.smoothtransitionsl...-non-compete-buyout/

Another possibility to negotiate it out is for Dr. Shen/Presbyterian to split the fees on any CC patients who follow him, sort of like a referral fee.  The standard in the legal profession is one third of the net fee earned goes to the referring attorney; I have entered such agreements many times on both sides.  Maybe CC can be made to release the noncompete with a similar fee sharing agreement.  I would try to mediate it with that mindset for a resolution.  Because right now neither CC nor NY Pres is making ANY money on you guys and they have the power to change that.

To implement the approach outlined above, you would have to identify the attorneys for CC and for Dr. Shen and NY Presbyterian- possibly 3 different attorneys- and then send one letter addressed to all 3, explaining that due to the noncompete, the client and others like her wish to continue with Dr. Shen and have no intention to see anyone else at CC, and wish a resolution of the situation which would allow both parties to benefit.  And then request a joint mediation in which a fee sharing agreement can be discussed.  Again, this is in the category of nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Pouchomarx posted
I don't need my parents permission...lol
 

I recall a prior post in which you discussed your own children and it occurred to me that if you needed your parents' permission to make an appointment with Dr. Shen, then who the heck is giving permissions to your kids to do anything? I did read that post the same way. LOL

I wish I would of found ya'll sooner. Yesterday was Dr. Shens last day [Thursday Oct 31st 2019] 

I had my last appointment with him Tuesday Oct 29. He recommend I see Dr. Philpott. He said she was good. Which I hope she is, cause  I can be complicated. Like some of you I was/still distress about this. I have been Dr. Shen's patient for 17 year. When Ann told me I cried. He's been like a father to me. I could tell he was upset with how he's been treated by CC. He said he couldn't give any personal information but give it a couple of weeks and nothing you couldn't find with a quick Google search. lol. But he seemed to look forward to his 2 weeks of vacation but after he gets to NY he's going to China. He told me not to worry because he still has 20 years of work left so he wasn't retiring. I always told him he couldn't retire lol

If I can figure out a way to go to NY or move I definitely will try. Because like I always said he is the best.  Just about all of my Doctors have left the CC I knew something was going on but didn't know what. I always knew it wasn't about the money with him. It's always been about his patients. 

I felt the same way, before moving to PA my Drs I had for 17 years was at Cedar Sini and they work with Dr Shen and travel to China with him...I moved to PA, I was so LUCKY to have had Dr Shen for such a short time... 

(still I will never feel it’s fair to all the patients that want to stick with him and can’t) 

Wish ALL the J Pouch (family) the BEST!!! 

TAJ posted:

I felt the same way, before moving to PA my Drs I had for 17 years was at Cedar Sini and they work with Dr Shen and travel to China with him...I moved to PA, I was so LUCKY to have had Dr Shen for such a short time... 

(still I will never feel it’s fair to all the patients that want to stick with him and can’t) 

Wish ALL the J Pouch (family) the BEST!!! 

I am still not buying this... I believe if once hes established in NYC that we couldn't get an appointment with him there.. I think he just wasn't allowed to talk about it while still employed there and I get that.. But now that hes gone, I just don't see how they can tell you know at his new place..

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